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Discussion in 'Shrimp and Invertz' started by Fred Bennett Jr, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    I have a ten gallon planted aquarium with 3 tequila tuxedo guppies, 2 cherry barbs, a catfish its little forgot the name, but I wanna put a crab or some shrimp in the tank with them is the crab safe with those fish or will it eat them and I have a pressurized co2 kit coming with this effect the shrimp or crab in any way
     
  2. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    A crab is not a good idea. They will eat anything they can get a hold of and also need some land to crawl out onto. If you want to keep a crab I suggest a dedicated tank for that. You can find a lot of really cool planted tanks for crabs out there on the internet. Shrimp will be fine, why not try some red cherry shrimp or ghost shrimp.
     
  3. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    Ok thanks i was thinking that crab would be a stretch but cherry or ghost shrimp seem to be a good way to go..Will the co2 effect the shrimp cuz i heard that but dont know if thats true
     
  4. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Too much CO2 can harm any of the critters you keep. It is important to start it slow and increase over time. Start at 1 or 2 bubbles per second. Watch your fish and shrimp for signs of stress. If your shrimp are wandering and grazing they are fine, if they look drunk, lethargic, or are swimming laps around the tank your CO2 may be too high. If fish go to breath at the surface you have too much CO2 and you should stop it and aerate. CO2 takes practice to get right. Be cautious and know that it can kill....never make changes to your CO2 system when you won't be around to observe the tank.

    I have pressurized CO2 on all 3 of my tanks and shrimp are doing just fine and multiplying fast.
     
  5. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    Ok cool i have a fluval co2 kit coming the 20g unit one to two bubbles per second. I remember that. Thats not too big of a co2 system for my little tank right
     
  6. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    the fluval kit doesn't work that way, so you will not over dose your CO2. It isn't really a pressurized CO2 kit in its design and use. You fill the reservoir daily with CO2 and that amount slowly dissolves into your system. Should work fine for a low light small setup. I wouldn't try anything high light or plants that are too CO2 demanding.
     
  7. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

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    Too small if anything, those tiny cylinders are just as unstable as diy co2 is and get very very expensive very very quickly in buying replacement cylinders, they're only really suitable for maybe 2-3gallon tanks at a real push, I had the hydor one with 78g cylinder and a cylinder lasted 10 days on my 5gallon cube... Being unable to turn the co2 off at night only wastes it further and they're near impossible to get close to 30ppm with because the diffusion is so in efficient and when you use a glass diffuser the co2 last even less time.

    Bubble per second mean nothing what so ever, trying to measure your co2 or state what levels of co2 is in your water is just impossible. No two bubbles are the same and what one person may run 10bubbles that could only be the same amount of gas as someone elses 3 bubbles, that's just not going to be useful. You need a drop checker and 4dkh solution. My advise would be to post the fluval kit back, save up a bit longer and buy a proper kit with a solenoid, that kit just isn't going to be suitable. It's more of a outlay up front but you won't be spending money on new cylinders weekly.

    It's important to remember, there are no mainstream companies fluval et al that understand the needs of aquascapers they market at fish keepers and occasional hobbyists so when they say suitable for 15gallons this means it's for a low light, nonaquascaped fish tank. Regardless of the product if it's marketed by a big company it's probably best to assume it won't be suitable unless you do some research, ask an aquascaper and they tell you otherwise because a company will stretch an items usefullness as much as they can so it appears suitable for the largest possible market even if it wasn't really all that good to start with.
     
  8. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Garuf, I think Fred is relatively new and is most likely running what the general public would be using and is readily available to the common fish keeper. I wanted to avoid the complexities of CO2 initially. 1-2 bubbles per second while not able to give anyone a relative ppm, can give someone an idea or point of reference of what "starting out slow" means without over complicating it for someone who is very new to planted tanks and CO2. I don't think that bubble rates, bubble size, etc. varies by THAT much to make it a completely useless starting reference point. Given the question of "can I keep a crab with these fish" I made the assumption that the OP is new and inexperienced, I also assumed pressurized Co2 meant a regulator not the fluval kit. I agree its a poor kit.

     
  9. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

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    Regarding the bubble thing, I have a jbl bubble counter, one bubble per second on that gets me most of the way towards 30ppm on my 20l cube, however if I put my glass ebay bubble counter on not changing the pressure or anything else just the bubble counter the bubbles go too quickly to count. The variations are surprisingly large, much more than I anticipated.

    Getting back to the OP, there are a few truly aquatic crabs that are able to be mixed with fish but they are unsuitable at best for an aquascaped tank and certainly too large for a 10 gallon, they're also exceptionally rare only german aquariest have them readily available to my knowledge. There is only one crab that is aquascape and fish friendly, this is the loas micro crab, Limnopilos naiyanerti, they are however absolutely minute and very shy also quiet rare and expensive.
     
  10. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    i
    I been reading the reviews on that fluval kit and hearing alot of the same thing that not really a good kit and cancelled that order..lol the cost to maintain that kit will be expensive can you guys tell what co2 system you use and where u purchased them from or what a decent system that no too expensive that i can start out with on 10 gallon set up I have
     
  11. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Where do you live? If you are in the US I can make a few suggestions. If elsewhere I can't help with specific models/products but can let you know what to look for.
     
  12. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

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    Over to you, Shawn, I'm only really any good at recommending this sort of equipment in the UK/EU.

    Rexx grigg were always highly recommended when I first start out on the US boards, is he still a thing?
     
  13. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Rex has fallen off the scene as of late, rumors abound as to why. I've read a couple places of health issues and orders not being filled, considering Rex's good reputation I'm sure there are reasonable explanations. BTW, I had no idea the bubble rate could change that much, my experience with various counters hasn't shown that...good to know for the future.

    @Fred, do you have a budget? Do you want something quality that will last a lifetime and be very reliable or something cheap that will get the job done but may need some closer attention?
     
  14. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    Im in the US
     
  15. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you need CO2? What plants do you have? What light? What type of filter?


    You have a few options if you need CO2. 1)Build your own regulator, which can get you the best parts and equipment for the best price. 2)You can buy a quality regulator setup with the post body kit from a reputable place like Green Leaf Aquariums, 3) or you can go real cheap and get something like an Aquatek flow regulator. I've used regs from GLA and going on a year and half have only had one issue that was quickly resolved by GLA. The solenoid crapped out for some reason, GLA sent me a new one under the warranty that week. I've used the Aquatek, which is made in CA, for just as long. It has worked fine, but the needle valve is difficult to adjust and being that it is a flow regulator you cannot adjust the working pressure. It has worked fine for me in lower and higher light situations on a small 12 gallon tank.

    My low light Jungle scape uses the Aquatek, this setup would do fine without CO2, maybe not the staurogyne repens and and the hair grass, but everything else would grow fine. It is low light and slow growing, so the CO2 isn't cranked and the system doesn't heavily rely on it. I diffuse it using an Atomic atomizer in the tank, also from GLA. The Aquatek flow regulator runs $60-$70.

    [​IMG]

    My ADA 30c is high light and relies very much on a good CO2 supply. It is a 7.5 gallon aquarium. It uses one of the lower line models from GLA, the nature's beast regulator setup with an Atomic in-tank atomizer and bubble counter. GLA setups run from $120-$400 depending on the parts. They also sell the Atomic line of regs. I'm not familiar with the brand so can't comment on their function or quality.

    Green Leaf Aquariums CO2 Regulators

    If you choose to build I can point you to some good places to research and ask questions. I have never built one, but those who have make some serious CO2 kits. Some builds are all stainless steel, dual stage regulators with top of the line solenoids and needle valves. This route can be done for $100-$200...or more, depending on how cheap you find parts and if you go top of the line or not. If you like to build stuff this is the way to go.

    The Barr Report's Noob Guide To Building Your Own Regulator

    There are multiple options for diffusing CO2. If you use a canister filter you can place the equipment in line with the filter tubing. The best bang for your buck wise with easy diffusion methods are atomizers. An in tank atomizer in conjunction with a bubble counter and a couple check valves will be what you need. I say a couple check valves because I've found inline bubble counters to have notoriously poor built in check valves so to keep the counter fluid in the counter I put a back up check valve below it. You should always have a check valve right before your regulator to make sure nothing can back flow into it. Brass check valves are best. Reactors are another option, they are ones designed for in tank and inline. The better ones are usually the DIY models. As Garuf said, most things marketed by the "big companies" aren't worth crap.

    CO2 canisters can usually be purchased locally from Welding supply stores for $60-$80. Filling them is cheap, costs me $12 every 4 months or so. A 5 lb cylinder would be plenty for your needs and last a long time...more like 6-8 months or longer.
     
  16. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    I have a wisteria, java fern,amazon swords, dwarf hair grass, aqueon filter, two 25 watts reg lights that came with the hood. I think i wouldnt mind a diy project
     
  17. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    I want quality something to last i rather spend the extra money for good equipment
     
  18. Fred Bennett Jr

    Fred Bennett Jr New Member

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    Looking to stay under 200.00 bucks
     

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