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Spectrum for red plants

Discussion in 'Lighting Requirements' started by dukydaf, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Marcel

    That looks like a very nice up to date trim unit.

    Yes its a waiting game now, do you have any idea how long it will take before you notice and difference in the plant growth?

    Keith:):)
     
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  2. MarcelM

    MarcelM Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Yes it does :) thank you. Its a bit crooked here and there if you look at it in close details. But that is fuctional prototype make shift and the charme of kitchen table build projects with hand tools. Its made of some left over acrylic and it suits nicely.

    If it makes any difference it will show within days to weeks.. It depends also on the plants, the fast growing stems will show first.. I have some Rotala Mexicana Goyas on the floating driftwood just under the surface, they are closest to the light and will react first in color change within days. If there is any..
    Here they are in full blast..
    DSCF4938 (Kopie).JPG

    If i see any positive effect in them i might rebuild again and extend it with more full spectrum units.

    But what will the algae do??? :whistle: This i have to watch even closer..
     
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  3. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Marcel

    Keep the plants moving (growing) plus two 30+% weekly water changes should help.

    Keith:):)
     
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  4. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    The plants produced more anthocyanin as a result of increasing red light, not simply reflecting more red light from the "full spectrum" LEDs.

    When the new LEDs were installed, Ludwigia sp. "Red" was a very dull color as seen here:
    [​IMG]The color is a shade redder than in the morning. So in just a couple of hours, this plant produced enough anthocyanin to be noticeably redder. The older leaves show the dullness of the color.

    Here is a picture of L. sp. "Red" as it is now:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Again, the pictures were taken under almost the same lighting.

    FYI, the spectral distribution of the "full spectrum" contains less blue light than the 6500K LEDs. This is due to the higher red phosphor content than the yellow phosphor content of the 6500K LEDs.

    Anthocyanin reflects light in the red and blue spectrum. It probably reflects more of the red spectrum because the plants appear red. I can see that it reflects the blue light of the 475nm LEDs that were installed. Anthocyanin do not absorb more light, it reflects it. This is why plants deeper underwater are not as red or lack anthocyanin altogether, resulting in the green appearance, to be able to absorb the available light.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
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  5. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    The lighting is a combination of 450nm + 660nm? I'm curious if the 660nm LEDs have any effect on coloration because it's such a narrow spectra.
     
  6. MarcelM

    MarcelM Aspiring Aquascaper

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    The manufacturers specs say RED: 610nm ~ 720nm / BlUE: 520 nm ~ 400nm :)
     
  7. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Here's another experiment -
    Because my tank is 40.5" long but the LED fixture is only 29.5" from LED to LED, there's a huge gap in light coverage. If the fixture is centered, the ends of the tank receive a lot less light and plants in the back corners tend to stunt and lose their lower leaves. My solution was to shift the fixture to the right and add a 3000K LED bulb over the Rotala sp. "H'ra" on the back left corner. This LED bulb was only able to produce the coloration in the picture below:

    [​IMG]

    To control for the lighting spectrum, the picture was taken with the LED fixture over the Rotala's. This will be the new fixture position while the experiment is being conducted:

    [​IMG]

    Today, October 19, 2015, is Day 1 of LED fixture directly over the Rotala sp. "H'ra" to see if it produces any noticeable change in coloration.

    The 3000K LED bulb was moved to the back right corner to provide light coverage to this area:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    That can't actually be correct. If it's using a blue LED, the spectral range will be very limited ~30nm at most, definitely not cover 120nm of spectra. The same with the red LED. A way to check is to split the light using a diffraction grating, a prism, or the back of a CD/DVD/BluRay, and see how wide the spectra are.
     
  9. dukydaf

    dukydaf New Member

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    Yes, you are right , anthoycanin does not absorb more light and can be a major part of the "redness" of a plant. But in my posts I was careful to say "red pigments", as plants can also have carotenoids and xanthophylls(yellowish) which colour the plant and act as antenna pigments. Their absorption spectrum is different than that of Chrophyll a b ... So it is still possible that plants will produce more of these pigments (become redder) to help with light capture.

    I think your experiment could benefit for a way to control for confounders (ie you dose more iron,CO2 etc). Maybe put some "control" Rotala in a corner of the aquarium that is not under the experimental light. Then, by comparing "control" Rotala with "experimental" Rotala it is "easier" to attribute the result to light. Again, all photos must be taken under the same light with the same camera/processing settings. I look forward to see how the experiment develops.

    Thank you for posting the photographs, for me they speak more than theory :).
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
  10. MarcelM

    MarcelM Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I reviewed the specs again, its a bit bad translation from english to dutch and not fully explained how it is configurated..
    The provider offers different configurations in red/blue or red/white led combinations.
    It looks likes they use different red and blue colors mixed in the configuration.

    I ordered the 3 red : 1 blue configuration to get the most red out of it. Probably set up with different red led types 630nm / 660nm / 750nm and blue 450nm. etc.

    Depending on what you want to grow you can choose different configurations more red or more blue and even mixed with 7000k white leds.
    Excact configuration is not explained.

    The offered configurations are
    5red : 1blue
    4red : 2blue
    3red : 1 blue
    2red : 2white

    i choose 3:1, maybe should have taken the 5:1 configuration to get the whole compleet red spectrum.. But we'll see what happens..

    I do not have typical red plants, but a sword (jungle star) and 3 rotalas with some red potential. actualy only one rotala shows a bit longer stems between the leaves (colorata). The 2 others grow relatively compact.. (Goya - Indica) the first 2 showed alread signes of red and yellow. the indica didnt yet realy color other then only green. all tho i have one sticking out emersed and that emersed piece of stem turned red within a day. Funny and the submersed part of the stem stays green. It gets no direct daylight. :)

    I'll try the CD reflection tomorow, seen it before but didnt think of it to use it for the aquarium lights. Like to see what it shows me.. :) Thanks..
     
  11. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    The picture of the Rotala sp. "H'ra" is how it was grown before the LEDs were placed above it. That is the control. Not perfect one, but it's the best I can do.
     
  12. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Unlikely. They would be different colors if they were. 750nm would be barely perceptible as it's outside the range of human vision. This spectral range is used for flowering and seeding.
     
  13. MarcelM

    MarcelM Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Yes i looked the color chart up later yesterday and indeed the 750nm would be in the infrared ranche.. It's a $6 experiment to give the plants some extra red, so no man over board. I'm not sure what i've bought other than grow light leds according to the seller or i bought a joke. We shall see what it will bring.
     
  14. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Would that be for aquarium plants or indoor/outdoor garden plants?

    Keith:):)
     
  15. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I don't know if submerged aquatic plants are able to use far red light (>700nm) since it attenuates rapidly under water.
     
  16. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Solcielo lawrencia

    There are members who grow plants WK for example other than in aquariums.

    Keith:):)
     
  17. MarcelM

    MarcelM Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I must say.. :) Don't realy know if it is the 800 lumen extra i installed or the full spectrum unit causing it.. But since the new unit hangs, its bubbling like never before.. Assimilation clearly increased a lot.. Not realy seeing much more red yet in the plants.. :)
     
  18. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Marcel

    I have a few red plants in my Terrascapes and they are growing very well with just the standard T8 plant and daylight tubes.

    Keith:):)
     
  19. MarcelM

    MarcelM Aspiring Aquascaper

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    After 4 months having that red/blue full spectrum unit burning above the tank, I didn't notice any significant colour changes in the red plants. :)

    My light set-up was build with 2 x 10.000 unit, 2 x 8000k unit and a full spectrum red/blue unit.. Now i replaced one 10.000k unit with a more yellow 4500k unit.

    So that makes 1 x 10.000k unit, 2 x 8000k unit, 1 x 4500k unit and a full spectrum unit.... No idea if any of the plants colour will react to the more yellows and greens in the 4500k added.. :) As far the visible change from the light itself, the total tank looks softer and less cool now with the yellow.
    :)
     
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  20. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Marcel

    Sounds like its a wait and see what happens.

    Keep us informed please.

    Keith:cat::cat:
     

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