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Olympus is Calling

Discussion in 'Aquascaping Journals' started by Zeus, Sep 18, 2016.

  1. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Hi all

    The last tank I owned was over 20 years ago 500 litre. But things have moved so so I can safely say my status is novice.

    Why 'Olympus is Calling' nothing to do with the design really but I would like to think I will end up with 'Natural beauty' Olympus relates to my AKA for gaming 'Zeus' and then one off my E-mails 'zeus@mountolympus.....' yep but cheesy but it was done a long time ago

    Six weeks ago I wasn't even thing about a tank. But from the comment of the wife of a fish tank would look good in the lounge and my son getting into aquascaping. The snow ball is rolling and gather momentum. The tank is ordered and I fell like I've jumped into the very deep end of the pool and theres a strong current and I'm not a good swimmer.

    So please feel free to criticise me and I would appropriate any input or thoughts you may have. Yes in gaming terms I'm the 'Noobie'

    The Tank ordered eta three weeks - (Most recent 10.2.17)
    [​IMG]


    Being used as room divider so will be seeing it front back and side.
    Size 60" x 24" x 24" 109 UK gallons (496 Litre)
    Optiwhite front back and side.
    Cabinet style - Scandinavian with hood - hood can be used open hood or closed depending on lights used

    Filter - to get

    Wanted to go for sump but cabinet would of been to high in the room so canister
    Fluval FX6 probably two

    Lights - to get

    Had a good read around and keep coming back to the kessils.
    Three kessil A160we tuna sun with controller do like the controller unit but no red leds but could allays add some separate red leds long term lights to me mounted on a custom made frame 15mm cooper pipe spayed matt black

    Heaters - to get

    external 300W x2

    CO2 - to get

    Gas with external CO2 reactors/diffuser

    Water

    Had it checked is its fine to use once de-chlorinated without an RO unit. Do have an RO unit at work so can get some as as/when/if needed.
    weighed up some test kits and awaiting to see on prices

    Thyme

    Not even in the alpha stage but needs to work from both front and back of tank so going it much thought do like the Dutch style - well do like a lot of the stuff I've seen. Six weeks ago I hadn't even done a web search on aquascaping and Takashi Amano was an unknown to me :eek:

    Been looking for a nice piece of bogwood to make something from, but no seen anything to inspire me yet

    Plants

    Yes - red and green
    my last tank had three types may be four.
    So yet to be decided but see what I can pick up locally will mainly be easy to medium difficulty but afraid some will be advance as they do look so nice
    Like is says Noob

    Substrate

    Only had a quick look at choices so far and need to work out plants I would like to grow (or kill) and then suitable substrate

    Fertilizer

    Yep dependent on plant choices


    Fish

    Use to have quite a few Discus few neon tetras clown loach and a few others over the years. But wont be getting much and small fish maybe a some scrimp. Its mainly going to be about the Plants/ wood and rocks.


    Plan to have thyme/ done plants in tank for December.

    So you can clearly see from what I've posted I'm mad.

    The phases 'Olympus has Fallen' and 'Epic fail' have a good chance to be posted in this thread.

    Luke failed to lift the X-wing out off the swamp with the force. He failed because he thought it wasn't possible.

    I know this is possible as seeing what you Guys have done :notworthy: I can do it, but I'm going to need some input, 'me thinks'

    Thanks for reading

    Zeus

    All input positive and negative welcome
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
    David B. Diehl, kabriolet and J Art like this.

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  2. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    IMG_1220.JPG IMG_1228.JPG IMG_1230.JPG IMG_1235.JPG IMG_1236.JPG Picked up some bog wood about 4 foot by 18" depending on the tilt I put it on which I think might look quite nice

    Got it soaking (y)

    wife likes first I like last
    Your thoughts please

    edited to keep size dl size down
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  3. lucasgg

    lucasgg Active Aquascaper

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    You need to layout the substrate and do a full blown dryscape andmpost pics. I'd highly recommend buying more rocks of visual(color) and physical(jagged, unsmooth) texture
    And get more wood too. You'll need it.

    With such a large tank I would consider doing the fullblown substrate nutrition package with aquasoil and the whole 9 yards. I'll leave you to judge if it's in your skill level...
    keep us well updated on the hardscape and best of luck



    I will also add that large aquariums are difficult to do well, so make sure to get plenty of help from otther forums
     
    Zeus likes this.
  4. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    thanks lucasgg

    was thinking the same about the substrate myself and sticking it in the tank but I haven't either of them yet (eta 3 weeks maybe). Just got it from a local store that had it hidden in the back, got it at a good price £20. Thought it had potential

    yet to decide which rocks. In the pic its just a plastic tub out of the garden to lift level it off, took quite a few at different angles etc so I could keep having a look at it without taking out off the soak all the time.
     
  5. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Scape design wise I picture a center island moving out from the wall side. You can use crypts and anubias along and around the hardscape, then plant some stem bunches and tall grasses in the center areas that are open. Be sure to build enough height with the hardscape so the tank hardscape looks to scale. The piece of wood is a good start.

    Try some sketches of your ideas and maybe an overhead landscaping drawing of your planting plan.
     
    Zeus likes this.
  6. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    The purpose of flow is to diffuse the CO2 and nutrients. It is also to ensure detritus does not collect, break the leaf barrier so leaves can absorb nutrients/CO2, and eliminate dead spots. You would be surprised how much flow is needed to accomplish this.

    If you run your filters in series (provided that is doable) you solve the lack of biomedia with one filter, but do not add flow to the system. The flow rates do not add up, you just get the max flow of whatever those filters are rated at, which is around 500 gph...not enough. You could run an independent loop for CO2 with a strong pump through a cerges reactor to make up for the flow and create a reliable CO2 system. I prefer reactors on an independent loop because it is then not subject to the variations in flow from canister filters over time. Running the filters separately will move double the amount of water. Putting the intake across from the outlet isn't usually done because you then eliminate good laminar flow.

    http://aquascapingpodcast.com/episode12

    Don't underestimate the value of good flow combined with a simple in tank glass diffuser. I think people often overcompensate for a lack of flow with over doing CO2.
     
    Zeus likes this.
  7. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Cheers gives me something to work on
     
  8. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    :notworthy:

    Well even before I read your post I understood why we need the flow 'Mass diffusivity' OFC Had a read around at dinner time at work
    it all makes sense why you quote 10x flow for aquascaping, difusion in water is of the order 10000 slower than air ie very slow, and this will be componded by a big tank with irregular flow due to hardscaping.
    So me thinks might need a powerhead or two for this tank. Handy to have one ready at filling just in case flow not enough or dead spot.
    I do like to understand why something is done and the physics/chemistry/biology/maths behind it rather than doing it.
     
    ShadowMac likes this.
  9. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Couldn't agree more. This enables us to solve our own problems in variable situations or applications.
     
    Zeus likes this.
  10. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Well asked Fluval on there take
    Dear fluval - any issues with running two FX6 in series. apart from when they auto stop to let the air escape. which can be easy sorted by having them on a timer which stops them both say every 8hrs for 1 min and having a small 1/4inch tubing on attached to the first fliters outlet which feeds direct into tank and the air would bypass the second filter

    got back quick must admit this is the second question I've asked them and both was Quick

    Replied

    Dear Zeus
    Thank you for your e-mail.
    Trying to run them in series would just result in the filters being over pressurised, putting the seals, impellers and motors under excess strain, and so likely to fail prematurely. This is not something we would recommend doing, and can see no reason to even try doing it, other than the benefit of only having one inlet and outlet in the tank, your overall filtration would not really be much greater than just one filter as the water going through the two filters would only be equivalent to one filter.
    Best Regards,

    XXXX XXXXX Customer Service/Technical Advisor

    Well the first part about being 'over pressurised and excess strain' well I havented worked the maths out but I dont agree with that at all. But the second 'not recommending it' fair enough they have to cover themselves after all. So the first two points they make I can accept after all I gave them was a rough idea completely apha in concept. But its the 'your overall filtration would not really be much greater than just one filter as the water going through the two filters would only be equivalent to one filter.' well what can I say :LOL: words escape me. Except the third point invalidates there first point as he clearly has a poor understanding of volume to surface area of filtration media and more media means more filtration unless after passing though the first filter they is nothing left to filter, very unlikely. So whats the chance of them understanding Reyolds number, Bernoulli equation etc (n)

    Whether I run them separate in parallel or series I've yet to finalise can see all the pros and cons

    I need the flow whether from the canisters, external reactor on an independent loop or power heads doesn't matter.
     
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  11. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Substrate

    Think it needs to be aqua soil, cant get it locally :(

    But which one/ones !!!
    how many 9kg bags to start with - more to read (y)

    Think my tank filling date needs moving already :LOL:
     
    ShadowMac likes this.
  12. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Two filter set up Parallel or series


    I was thinking of using two pumps so I could have more media. Thought of having them in series so I could swap the mechanical filtration for biological. therefor increase the total active surface area for bio filtration. But after the water has passed though the first filter there will be less O2 so less aerobic bio filtration will happen in the second filter (n) seeing that the canister isnt strong on biofiltration in the first place its performance in aerobic bio filtration will not yield a x2Plus increase. So BAD idea

    So will run them in Parallel or independent if I need two -humm.......

    Was thinking we was going for two for increase flow rate

    500Litre tank so need 5000l/h flow

    so Fx6 does about 2000l/h with standard filters. so two still not enough really. Lets say I get ehiem compact 3000 on open loop for exteranl CO2 diffuser/reactor and exteranl heaters. Fit the CO2 diffuser/reactor and external heaters in parallel with separate returns for the heater and diffuser/reactor as warmer water hold less CO2, plus the absorption is slower in warmer water. ( need all we can to get the CO2 in water fast and stay in)

    So 5000l/h sweat spot maybe power head if needed for more flow dead spot.

    Will the FX6 handle the filtration for the Aquascape and few small fish, could see how the nitrites etc levels go with one FX6 once the levels are safe its (y)(y) (y) if the levels stop reducing to non safe level, get another canister if needed. Specs on This pretty good plus UV filtration price great £99
     
  13. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    I was thinking, you could consider getting Ocean Clear canister filters, filling it with the media of your choice and selecting an appropriate pump. Check them out and let me know your thoughts on this idea.
     
    Zeus likes this.
  14. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Great idea and one I have already looked into already. Ocean Clear canister filters are not that freely available here in the UK and not cheap when they are eg Ocean Clear Model 340 Canister Filter £520
    plus cant find the specs on them for media volume either.

    hence do keep coming back to the Fluval FX6 for all its features and for the price£225.

    the Allpondsolutions is one I keep looking at and at £99 each just need to find out the media volume they can take as they do have a UV filter fitted as STD which is using some of the quoted 20litre volume the manufacturer quotes, might benefit from user mod. Might go down to local store and open the box and have a good look at it. It does quote 2000l/h but even if its only 1000l/h with media two running in parallel will yield 2000l/h which is on par with the FX6 and even with the UV filter in other bet two Allpond canisters hold more media than one FX6. even if the pump isn't that good in the Allpond ones Ehiem compact 2000+ £60 and bypass one thats fitted
     
  15. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Think I might do a dry start for some off the plants/mosses ! Think it might make it easier for me
     
  16. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Another huge price spike in the UK. They are not that expensive here. Probably cost more than a standard canister, but they are more easily scaled to our needs for large tanks.

    The cheap price of the all pondsolutions canister has me a bit wary of the quality and performance. I'd do some research on that end.

    For me, two FX6s would be the better option...it is a more known quantity. Maybe could get away with one with modest stocking and a second independent CO2 loop with a cerges reactor and strong pump to compensate for lack of flow from a single filter. I would want a pressure rated pump or calculate the head pressure to ensure the pump performance is adequate.
     
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  17. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    idd

    Bang for buck two FX6s make sense and then independent CO2 loop. Just picked up a FX6 up. Got it working on my bogwood with the carbon filter. Pretty quite and nice flow with STD filters.
     
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  18. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Just had a read about these (y)(y)(y) Like the idea of a quick mod to a study Water filter housing with brass fittings etc rather than a pre build bit of cheap plastic with jubilee clips on it.
    Plus like the theroy of pressurising the reactor to get the CO2 in the water, easily done with ball value wafter the reactor.

    Worked out the maths and two FX6s give 2100l/h each so lets call it 4000l/h for both in parallel allowing for more/better media, more resistance in piping etc so thats 80% of the ideal x10 flow the tank.

    Putting the cerges reactor after the filters is going to have a massive effect on flow, plus plan to have external heaters which 'per se' wont effect the flow if correct size piping/setup is used, the flow rate will be maintained, but will tend to get less CO2 in the water when heating.

    So having the cerges reactor on separate independent loop with say a Eheim compact 2000+ which quotes 2000l/h alllow for drop in flow due to pressure needed to get cerges reactor to work and should have 1000l/h extra therefore with FX6 x2 plus cerges reactor with heim compact 2000+ should get 5000l/h np

    But will the Eheim compact 2000+ be up to the job has a 2.3m H max but the Eheim compact 3000+ has 3.0m H max ... humm.........
     
  19. Zeus

    Zeus Aspiring Aquascaper

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    ADA aquasoil/power sand/gravel etc How much of each --humm its not cheap for 60"x24" x24" tank

    Thought I would hardscape the tank with wood rocks etc and just use some garden bedding compost. Plan the plants scape and any gravel areas and areas for fine aquasoil for certain plants. Remove the 'gravel' areas of compost measuring it with kitchen measuring jug make a note. repeat with fine aquasoil area. Remove rocks wood and measure whats left with jug make a note, take off power sand needed for size of tank whats left is the medium aqua soil.

    Plus would give me a better/cheaper way of planning the scape, esp with my lack of experiance
     
  20. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    You are taking your time and thinking through this build thoroughly. This will pay dividends far into the future of the scape.

    Skip the power sand, it will not make a difference other than taking a chunk out of your budget.

    sent from tapatalk on my phone so auto correct and other errors are bound to happen
     
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