1. Welcome to AquaScaping World!

    Become a register member to get FULL SITE ACCESS AND BENEFITS.

    Join the ASW community now!

    Dismiss Notice

NEW TO ASW - Plan on 23l Nano Planted & Breeding RCS Tank

Discussion in 'Introductions and Greetings' started by Jamie_hill1987, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Hello EVERYONE !
    My name is Jamie, I only recently took up the hobby of keeping tropical fish mid last year, starting with a Community Juwel Rio 240l, Planted with Co2 injection and dosing ferts, still trying to nail getting the balance right for the plants, VERY Hard water I have been a member on Tropical Fish Forum UK since my hobby started, which has been great!

    Link to my tank log
    http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/index.php?topic=30535.0

    So after a little while I managed to pick up a 23l Nano tank, I would like to make this a planted breeding haven for some Red Cherry Shrimp, I haven’t kept shrimp before so I am looking forward to it, but in no way am I rushing into it.

    I have some questions regarding Substrate choice for planting and breeding, I have VERY hard water where I live, South of England in Portsmouth, water is often referred to as liquid rock lol. I had planned to use JBL Manando and Aquabasis which I have already purchased, but after some further researching I have read that the JBL stuff will increase water GH+KH which will not be suitable conditions for breeding Red Cherry Shrimp, what with my water being Very hard already this surely won’t be ideal.
    I have a bag of brown Flora-Base also, so could use that? Just want to make sure I start out well, even if it means I have to buy something else J so that’s why I wanted to get the opinion from the experts, you lot ! J

    I have read both of these threads, but still am unable to come to a definitive conclusion. (I may start a new thread regarding substrate choice)

    http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/jbl-manado-reviews.5257/

    http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/jbl-manado-any-good.3766/

    My current tank stats are the following in my 240l, I plan to kick start the nano with this water and some sponge from the filter on the 240l.
    pH - 7
    Gh 214+ (19 drops, 7 more than scale goes too)
    Kh 214+ (14 drops, 2 more than the scale goes too)
    Nitrate 30-40
    Phosphate - 2


    I also plan to dose easycarbo and ferts on the nano, in the future I may grab a small Co2 injection kit, but not just yet.

    So, that’s me J Looks forward to chatting to you all and sharing my progress hopefully J
    Jamie
     

    Sponsored link:


  2. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    Please update your Location Jamie for more definitive help and welcome to ASW!
     
  3. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Hi Garuf, thanks for the welcome :)

    My location should be updated :)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  4. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    Magic, my personal advice would be to avoid manado, I've not spoken to a use who has been happy with it, I love flora-base, it's really good stuff and in all honesty I think it's better than ADA's aquasoil.

    I have liquid rock where I am in the Stoke-on-Trent area and I feel your pain, it does make getting co2 into the water a fair bit harder but the plants don't really mind, I can't justify the costs of RO at this stage in life otherwise I'd have it. It's fish that care most about the water and for me, contentiously possibly, I don't think hard water fish are anywhere near as interesting as their soft water kin.

    Getting to shrimp, I'm not sure they'd mind, speak to your LFS and see what they find, most lfs' that have had cherry shrimp will end up with sumps full of them if they like the water, RCS are basically bottom feeders so they breed like wild if they're able to.

    Basically your plans seem fine to me, what are you thinking in terms of the filtration etc? I wouldn't spend a single penny on a small co2 kit, money wasted in my very honest opinion, they're just not at all cost effective, don't regulate co2 very well and are useless for anything bigger than maybe 10l and low light tanks, treat them like diy co2, only any good for low light tanks as a supplement to a tank that doesn't really need co2.

    Hobby grade kits are so inaccurate that I've long since stopped measuring them, if you're adding ferts too you'll throw them well off so it's really not worth bothering at all.
     
  5. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Thanks for the reply Garuf.

    Thanks for your feedback regarding the Manando, I have read nothing but bad reviews on it since purchasing it, shame really, looks like I should give the Florabase a go then :)

    Mmmmm Liquid rock, I am only just starting to realise what a pain it is with my planted 240l, getting some help on TFFUK getting my levels right at present, so hopefully should start to see some results soon.

    Just had a message from someone who is only 3 miles up the road from me who is keeping RCS and they have said the shrimp they have are breeding like crazy, which is good news as the water will be the same we are broth using :) but certainly will speak to LFS.

    Glad the plans seems ok, filtration at present isn't anything to big, a little 200 L/H pump that came with it, will see how I get on and upgrade if need be, just set the pump up in my 240l this evening.

    That's good to know regarding the Co2 kits, so do you think a liquid carbon and ferts would suffice for 23l ? would love to get a plant carpeting in it.

    Couple of pics attached;



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    Oh aye, I know the tank, arcadia ones. I always wanted to try one but could never find one for the price I thought it was worth.
    I'm not sure about carpeters, you'd have to search around, my suspicions are that both the flow and light would be insufficient, plenty for mosses and lower light plants (plants with a lower light threshold) but things like HC, I'm not sure, if you provided plenty of co2 I can see it working but on just liquidcarbon I'm not sure, E parvula and M hirsuta I can see working though, the thing to bare in mind with liquid carbon is it's very very toxic, far more so than co2 so be real careful with it. Where it does come into its own is on nanos with low-mid levels of light and undemanding species, more light more demand and it starts to fall down and plants can't get carbon quickly enough from it to prevent issues and "proper" co2 injection becomes a must, some plants just don't like it too, I've used it in the past to kill riccia that's invaded a scape, vallis too doesn't like it.

    Personally I'd like an external, but it's not vital for shrimp, they're just a nice thing to have because they give extra volume and capacity and flow and it's one less thing in the tank, all lovely things like that but for cherries I doubt they care either which way as long as you're doing good maintenance, 50% weekly water changes etc.

    Getting your levels right? Come again? Do you mean trying to chase particular levels of ferts in the water because that's a bit like Sisyphus' tale, it's almost an act futility in a lot of cases because it just isn't necessary, I suppose it's a similar case with water too, it's much easier to adapt to what you have than constantly chase parameters unless they're 100% necessary to your goals.
     
  7. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Morning ;)

    Yeah you got it, I managed to pick this one up for £20 glass and gear is in great condition, got it from the lady I got my first tank from as well :)

    I am still reading in to all sorts of different plants, with the HC I understand it requires high Co2, be interesting to see if anyone has had any success with HC and Liquid Carbon in a Nano tank? lighting wise it is only 9W standard so I 100% need to upgrade that, not having much luck finding anything at present that will give me a minimum of say 24W. If I don't take the HC route, I am sure I read somewhere you can get some great carpeting mosses, really looking for some guidance on plants and hardscape to use for this tank which will thrive with the conditions I can provide.

    Maybe if I upgrade the tank I'll put an external on it, but for the time being i will just stick to the mini internal pump for the shrimp :) still trying to find upgraded lighting.

    Think your right with adapting to conditions I have regarding water :)

    I would like the tank to obviously be visually impressive, with the addition of the shrimp, I want to try and find someone's Nano tank that I can base my first one on, trying to replicate the same environment for my first one, then when I build up a bit more knowledge try my own designs :) also need to select plants that are going to give me a great effect along with coping well with just liquid carbon and the liquid ferts :)


    Time for me to start a tank build yet do you think ;) ?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  8. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    That's about what I'd want to pay as well, not much more as I'd not use the filter or light but that's not the point, I'd sell them to some one who wants fish only or spares box them for a quarantine tank or something...

    The thing with those little arcadia lights is they're very very weak even for a 9w light and the colour rendition is ghastly. I don't think you should go chasing towards 24w, you'd need proper co2 and a lot more turnover than that little pump could comfortably give, I just can't see that being a success it'd be an awfully large amount of PAR at the substrate. To have a tank that would be managable and give a modest amount of light I'd point you towards the 11w Dennerle clip on lights which are very good but at a cost or the superfish/wave 11w's or even fluvals 11w dennerle clones, the dennerle and superfish have very nice colour renditions, the dennerle even has a little reflector so deliverys more punch than the SF ones.

    What is important to remember with light is it's the throttle to the system, the more you add, the more you need things like co2 and ferts etc to succeed, otherwise it's like revving an engine with no fuel tank, it won't work for long. It's much better to have modest levels of light and better filtration and co2 than lots of light and insufficient turnover and co2. It's also worth forgetting any of that watts per gallon non-sense, it just doesn't have a place in the hobby anymore, technology has moved way too fast for it to keep up.

    Weeping moss carpets well if you do that route and would work well and would grow fine on just liquid carbo provided you don't overdose.

    If you want to have a high visual punch then this typically means the hardscape has to be very very good, especially in a nano where the plants almost play second fiddle much more so than in a larger tank. Check out my thread Get excited and make something, that will give you a lot of pictures with very little digging.

    With water, as long as it's clean the shrimp won't care, not cherries at least, things are more complex when you get to more demanding species.

    Don't stress ferts, as long as you've got a good all in one and it's dosed in sufficient quantity daily then you know if you have problems it's unlikely to be related to ferts and more likely down to low co2/low flow or in otherwords too much light.
     
  9. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
  10. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    Hmmm. Those "non standard" t5's have a really bad reputation, hard to get tubes when they blow, poor quality when you do find them and shoddy ballasts, I suppose for the money it's not bad but they're not great, I don't really know what the levels of par would be like I suspect high but it's so hard to guess at with products like that, if it's got a really poor quality ballast like some I've seen tested then the par could be next to nothing.
    That blue light is going to need replacing by the way so you could well discover how hard it us to get good quality tubes very quickly indeed.
     
  11. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Got to be better than the single 9W one standard with it.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  12. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    A fair point. Keep an eye on it though, I've heard horror stories of the ballasts exploding in the past. If you're very diy minded the body should the bulbs pack up could easily be converted to fit easier to find 2x 11w pll power compacts or even LEDs at a push.
     
  13. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Yeah, I could modify in the future, it all arrived yesterday, unit is fine, however the brackets for the unit are both broken :0/

    One won't open fully to allow access to the top of the tank, the other has a snapped leg.

    Have spoke to the eBay seller, waiting on a response.

    P.s. that isn't my nail varnish, lol.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    Urgh, what a waste of time. :/
     
  15. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Mmmmm I know, hopefully he will just send me 2 replacement brackets straight out with no problems, I am not willing to entertain sending this whole unit back.
     
  16. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    Yeah. I had that with a tank that leaked, the distributor offered a replacement on the condition I posted the tank back, after weighting it and all the rest I gave up, it was just going to cost too much to post, even if it meant not getting a replacement on the warranty, I couldn't justify paying the sort of money expected.

    Good luck with it, lets hope they're good to warranty.
     
  17. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Hope so, will keep you posted :)
     
  18. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Still no response from the eBay seller despite forwarding the images of the broken brackets to them Saturday, contacting them again yesterday and today.

    Grrrrrrrrrrr.
     
  19. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Leeds, England.
    They're likely one of the ones that have Union flags all over the place and say "BRITISH" everywhere but are little more than a chinese seller pretending to be something they're not, a lot of people have loads of trouble with those sort of things. Lets hope they're just slow off the mark and they sort you out!
     
  20. Jamie_hill1987

    Jamie_hill1987 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    United Kingdom, Portsmouth.
    Mmmmmmm. I don't mind it when I take the gamble and order from abroad, but when it actually says it is an English seller, I expect the service.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     

Share This Page

Sponsored link: