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New little tank ..with aquasoil...need help

Discussion in 'General Aquascaping and Planted Tank Discussions' started by Tsunami, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Hello,
    i started last week a little tank 30*17*20 so 8 litbut with substrate it's around 6,5 lit.
    I started it last week (monday) with aquasoil amazonia and ada power sand, because i would try to get a tank like ada style; plants are :
    hemianthus callitrichoides cuba for foreground
    eleocharis acicularis for background
    glossostigma elatinoides for foreground
    elatine hydropiper for foreground.
    I use also an askoll co2 system, 10 bubbles/min and light is a dennerle nano light 11w 6500 kelvin for 7hours
    ph 5,5 kh4 no2-12 n03-80 , i change water (2 liters)every 2day. No algae problems at the moment.
    The problem is that, no2 and no3 are always real high, and i can reduce them changing water ...real often; so this is normal with ada aquasoil substrate? All the plants seems to grown but slow, and the elatine hydropiper is all almost died. So someone could helps me, telling me where is wrong on starting up?
    Thanks all
     

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  2. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    Nothing wrong, ADA aquasoil is very rich substrate. You probably have high ammonia as well for at least couple of weeks until your filter cycle completed. You pH also will slowly climb to around 6.2, normally take a month. Once complete you can start putting your fish in.

    I never try elatine hydropiper, so can;t help you on that.
     
  3. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Thanks Shadow for your answer..
    But if i change water that often, will retard all the filter cycle right??..But if i don't change water i think plants will get problems with high no2 and no3 and ammonia
     
  4. Jurijs mit JS

    Jurijs mit JS Admin Staff Member

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    dont worry about the bacteria.
    do the wc and everything will be fine within a couple of weeks ;)
     
  5. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Thanks again Jur4ik, i will do so wc , and i hope that soon all will be fine.
    I still don't use RO water, but simple water, because i think aquasoil reduce ph and kh quickly, so i need a high water..
     
  6. Jurijs mit JS

    Jurijs mit JS Admin Staff Member

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    yep, this effect will not last forever.
    any photos?
     
  7. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Jur4ik, the water values it's always high, no2 and no3 are not going down.
    I didn't think this about aquasoil amazonia.And i saw also is not easy to plant any little plants as hc and glosso, with aquasoil...
     
  8. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    And i think also i should stop or reduce the c02, because if the water value is ph 5,5 and kh4 , the tank and plants don't needs supplementary c02 supplied from askoll system right?
    Or the plants on start up needs it ?
     
  9. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    You still need CO2, pH 5.5 does not mean that your tank have enough CO2. That low pH is normal during initial stage using ADA soil. If not mistaken it was due to Nitric acid or maybe humic acid or acetic acid, can't remember which one :p. It will slowly go up to around 6 during the filter cycling time
     
  10. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Hm ok, so i will continue to use added co2 system on the tank.
    But as i wrote, also if i continue to change water regular, with tap water (has more hardness 7kh and 13gh and ph 7), the water values continues to be high..i meant no2 no3 nhe and po4,..and after some hour after water change, the ph and kh are going down.
     
  11. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Well, i don't see any good new on my tank, 16 days but always high no2 and no3 and nh3.Saturday i re-planted some glossostigma on left down, but today i see them almost melt and died, how is possible? there is something wrong for sure, and i don't understand what ..
    here some pics.. also for the plants from "anubias" ..
    u can see the plants i planted:
    riccia fluitans
    hemianthus calli cuba
    elatine hydropiper
    and glossostigma.
    So the tank is 8 liters, but with substrate is 5 liters, and i have 11w for 7,5 hours.
    too much light power( more than 2w at liter)?
    too much long light period?
    too much co2 erogated? co2 is 12bubbles at minute
    Please help me...or maybe i should restart all?
     

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  12. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Nobody can give me some help please?
     
  13. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    There are few possibilities
    1) The plants you bought from fish shop are normally grow emerse. Maybe it is just adapting from emerse to submerse leaf
    2) Watt per Gallon or Watt per Liter does not scale really well. It does not work in very small tank or very big tank.
    3) CO2 too low. bubble per second or bubble per minute does not really tell how much CO2 in the tank water. Its depend on your diffuser efficiency. I never try such a small tank but I'm guessing you need at least 1bps.
     
  14. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Thanks shadow,i read your answer and i must admit all the possibilities u wrote could be exact.All the plants are from "anubias" gel cup, did u see the image posted?It's seem only hc grows, without problems..
    But i have a trouble, 11watt it's too much for 5-6 liters? or is not that much? maybe i could try with 18watt.
    Regarding Co2, i have another trouble: i'm reading on c02 tabel(relation about ph and kh with co2): with ph 5,5 and kh 4 the co2 result is 379mg/l, and if i add co2 with askoll system i will saturize the tank..that's right?
     
  15. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    pH vs. kH table only work if you are sure the pH differences is due to CO2 alone. Unfortunately it is not the case with ADA soil. ADA soil have pH lowering capability.

    There are other way to measure CO2, you might want to read link below:
    http://www.aquascapingworld.com/forum/water-chemistry/422-how-do-you-monitor-co2-levels-4.html

    Light is a bit tricky, your curent light should be enough to at least make plant grow. However you may not get the grow that you want. I mean with only 11W, you HC and glosso may end up grow tall instead of nice carpet.
     
  16. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Shadow, i'm reading the link u gave me about how to monitor c02 levels..so i will get more info about it...thanks so.
    For the tank light, i will try with a new 18w lamp 6500k, hoping for 6 liters tank will not be too much.
    Should i start to use liquid fertilizer? tank has 18 days, ...and i have all 7 seachem products. (ada is too much expensive)
     
  17. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    7 seachem products?
    I think you only need 5 Seachem fertilizer products: Seachem N, Seachem P, Seachem K, Seachem Trace, and Seachem Iron

    Cheaper alternative are dryfert KNO3, KH2PO4, + Seachem Trace and Iron

    You can use fertfriend (link below) calculator to determine how much fertilizer to dose. You can use calculator in my blog but then it is not use friendly :-p
    FertFriend

    Your weekly target (if you are following EI):
    N = 5-30 ppm
    P = 1-2 ppm
    K = 10-30 ppm
    Fe = 0.2-0.5 ppm
     
  18. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    7 seachem products are: flourish,trace,excel,iron, nitrogen,phosphorus and potassium.
    i read with interest about co2 on link you gave me, so now i understand more about it, and about table...so co2 table is valid only if there are not external "agent" ...and this is not possible with an aquasoil substrate.
    I want to start the extimative index, but it's seem that not simple, i saw also on your blog the fertiliser calculator..but i still have trouble if is better ei or a complete fertilization with seachem day dosage.
     
  19. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    flourish is prety much trace with little bit of N, P and K. It is not necessary since you already have trace, nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. Excel is a CO2 replacement, it not necessary since you already inject CO2. However excel is good to have since it have side effect of killing algae. Just becarefull since excel overdose will kill shrimps as well.

    EI is just a dosing idea. It does not necessary to use dry fert. You can use any brand of fertilizer and still follow EI dosage but in order to do that you need to know its composition. Seachem product happen to be generous in informing user of their composition. You can easily use Seachem for EI dosing.
     
  20. Tsunami

    Tsunami New Member

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    Thanks a lot shadows for you information here, and in your blog it's helpful to me!
    However i replaced 11w lamp with a new 18w lamp, so now it's 3w/liter..i want to see if now glossostigma and helatine hydropiper could grows more easy than before.
    Maybe 3w/lit could be helpful also to algae, i will monitorize it, and i hope will not happen.
    From 3 days, no2 and no3 are going down , and i didn't change water since 4 days..
    no2 0,5 no3 2 nh3 5...ph5,5 kh5
     

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