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IAPLC too restrictive?

Discussion in 'General Aquascaping and Planted Tank Discussions' started by ShadowMac, May 20, 2015.

  1. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    I was wondering what the community thought about IAPLC's restrictions on sharing aquascapes and photos of entries?

    I have been mulling over not entering the IAPLC anymore because it keeps me from sharing my tanks. I do not set up and do a lot of photo sessions, so usually my contest photo is the only "final photo" I have of a layout. When I send it off to IAPLC it becomes theirs and it cannot be featured elsewhere.

    Is it worth entering the contest? Particularly for those of us who will not place in the top 100? I'd rather share my work and enter less restrictive contests as opposed to keep it under lock and key to enter IAPLC. At least this is what I'm thinking these days.

    While at one point IAPLC promoted and grew the aquascaping hobby, these days it seems to keep the work of the best aquascapers away from us. It seems this way, anyways.

    What are your thoughts out there?
     
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  2. John N.

    John N. Administrator Staff Member

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    Certainly an unintentional consequence, but couldn't agree with you more. It's always been that way and has created a culture of elitism (in my opinion) that keeps budding aquascapers from sharing and learning from each other. Some do share their desing process after that fact, but I can only imagine more would share if it was the other way around - no restrictions.

    For better or for worse, I think the restrictions by the IAPLC to hold the layout private is intended to 1) keep the evaluation impartial, and 2) prevent others from copying each other's ideas.

    Whether you want the acknowledgement from a contest and participate that's up to where you are in life. All people like acknowledge and formal appreciation, what it ultimately means and how often you need this justification is the real question.

    -John N.
     
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  3. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    The restrictions on using the same photograph is a legal one due to publishing rights. If you publish your photo first, you retain rights to it so IAPLC cannot legally publish without first getting your consent. It also restricts what they can do with the photo such as featuring it in their videos or other publication media, unless you also give consent. Getting consent is a legal hassle that takes time and money. By submitting your photo, you agree to hand over ownership of the photo which allows them to do as they please, including publishing it in their annual IAPLC book. This prevents them from being sued for a variety of reasons since you can't sue for what isn't legally yours, even though you created the work.

    I asked a clarifying question about this rule in another thread because it's so ambiguous and confusing. If IAPLC clarified what is or isn't allowed very clearly, then I doubt there would be this kind of secrecy by aquascapers. I'm worried that if I take two pictures back to back and, while they are technically two different pictures, someone at IAPLC would think they are exactly the same and disqualify me. Would I have any recourse to challenge that decision? The rules don't even specify.

    IAPLC has addressed this issue somewhat with their new "ADA-Authorized Local Contests in the World" that allows submission to other contests as long as it doesn't get published before IAPLC does. There are only four other contests that are authorized, one of them being AGA's (USA). I can potentially see a problem that if another contest becomes even more prestigious, IAPLC may decline authorization to prevent competition. For example, the new ISTA International Aquascaping Contest (http://www.iiac.com.tw/en/index.php) (not currently authorized) has a grand prize that is greater than IAPLC's grand prize. This is a potential threat to IAPLC because the grand prize purse of $10,000 is much more enticing than ¥1,000,000 (~$8,200). Should you enter IAPLC and ISTA, and win big at ISTA, IAPLC could disqualify you in their competition as an indirect way of discouraging others to apply to ISTA. I don't know if they would ever do this, but the possibility exists.
     
  4. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    I liked the suggestion in the other thread. You can show off your tank in a journal as per normal and leave all the equipment in. The IAPLC gets a picture with all the equipment out
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
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  5. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    This would make a simple easy to follow distinction. Do the rules as is allow for this?
     
  6. biobio

    biobio Aspiring Aquascaper

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    This is the main reason I am not entering any more... I like to share...

    The second reason is that IAPLC is image contest, and more and more tanks are made for the only one purpose: , its preeminence: "the final photo" - one and only one - the frontal view. It is 2D, static and not alive - totaly oposite of the tank essence. Tank is dynamic, evolving, 3D alive sculpture full of movement...

    I am waiting for the video contests somewhere in the future and without restrictions...
     
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  7. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    I have also decided not to enter this year. That means my tank journals will be getting some updates :D
     
  8. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    Look at the new rule "Please note that it is strictly prohibited to apply identical work to other contests*" and "The images of a layout tank in different photo cut or format are considered as an identical work." You can even use different photo to submit to other non approved competition. This new rule added this year probably to prevent scaper from supporting IIAC.

    I feel this to be childish behavior. As the oldest contest around, ADA should improve and show that they are better than IIAC instead adding childish rule to prevent other submitting their work to IIAC.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
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  9. nicpapa

    nicpapa Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I only enter in the aga contest this year.
    Not anymore ada....
     
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  10. Ed Villagracia

    Ed Villagracia Active Aquascaper

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    i think one of the main reason for the iaplc restriction, my guess, is mainly related to ADA magazine business.

    if you can recall iaplc change the rule in 2012. they allow voting system and they published the top 200
    and for that reason ada complained that their 2012 magazine showing the aquascapes no longer saleable.
    who will buy ADA magazine when you can easily download the photo of of the top scapes free.

    so in 2013 ADA. again, change the iaplc ruling using the old system. can no longer remember if
    additional ruling was added.

    just my plain observation.

    i read the thread. i also believe with your insight re IAPLC restrictions.
    deprivation of sharing.

    sorry just submitted my iaplc entry last monday 25.05.2015 :D
     
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  11. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree Mr_Ed. It is largely a business decision driven by their ability to publish the works and profit from it. Perhaps this is why non-profit hobbyist driven organizations may be the best places to have competitions. However, with that there will not be as big of a prize purse. Chasing near $10,000 is quite an incentive. Most of us do not have a shot at this prize, so for the broad majority of competitors it may not be worthwhile.

    It will be interesting to see how the IIAC does. Ista is making a move in the competition scene. Does anyone know if their rules are as restrictive?

    Quite honestly, I think it is fine to ask that works are not entered into other competitions. This does not seem quite right to me. Its like running a track meet and entering your time in multiple other meets. I'm mostly opposed to having to keep your work under lock and key in a dark back room away from the internet.
     
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  12. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    The Ista rules are taken right out of IAPLC:
    However, it does not specify further details about what constitutes high scores on any of these four categories.

    Then there's this clause regarding IAPLC:
    Note the last line regarding using a different photo with a different EXIF info. That's probably there as proof that it is a different photo should there be any dispute from IAPLC.

    http://www.iiac.com.tw/en/grading.php
     
  13. severumkid

    severumkid Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I think we are giving a lot of importance to ADA when it is not required.
    There were times when ADA was the sole big contest, a window to showcase your work to the world. And they utilized it fully.

    Now there are many other contests. Lets bring another contest on the platform to give some competition to ADA.

    Personally I don't give a fcuk to ADA, cause I know you do not need their bullcrap to make good tanks. AND I do not think I am going to be in top 27 anytime soon. So who should be afraid of ADA? Only may be 50 people plus another 50 some what foolish guys and girls who think they have a chance to come up to top 27. Rest? Participate in IAPLC and at the same time start showing of your tanks. What will ADA do? Cancel 1900 applications and run contest on 100 entries? Serves them fine, I say.

    I have used ADA Amazonia, the only thing from ADA that sells somewhat and is of some value. Frankly my own substrate is atleast 20 times better and probably 100 times cheaper.

    Enough of their high nosed snobbery, it's high time, we show them their place.
     
  14. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    At the moment they are quite open, maybe to attract more participants.

    There are a lots of going on between IAPLC and IIAC that you guys did know. I give you a hint, look at the IIAC judges, half of them replaced. If you know any of them, ask them them reason, you will be surprise how big bully is ADA.

    This is when IIAC start
    20150316.jpg

    After few weeks
    20150318.jpg

    This is today
    20150528.jpg
     
  15. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    That may not work, IAPLC clamming the whole layout not just the photo.

    http://en.iaplc.com/results15/news001.html
    "The images of a layout tank in different photo cut or format are considered as an identical work."
     
  16. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I asked a clarifying question about this exact rule here:
    http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/iaplc-identical-work-clarification.9423/

    "Photo cut" and "format" can be interpreted as cropping and medium (film, print, jpg/digital). I do not interpret that rule as the entire layout. There's no way legally that IAPLC can claim the tank as the work. Only the submitted photo is being given to IAPLC to use exclusively for whatever purposes they choose when you enter.
     
  17. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    I think ADA will use it to disqualify an entrant. They have the rights to reprint and distribute that image, yes...but they can certainly disqualify someone for anything they deem violates any rules and would have the right to do so.
     
  18. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Are there any public discussions by the former and current judges? I'd rather not make that assumption, even though I feel that assumption has merit.
     
  19. Solcielo lawrencia

    Solcielo lawrencia Aspiring Aquascaper

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    But two different photos of the same tank doesn't violate the stated rules. I can definitely see how they could, but would they? Now I'm more curious about the reasons for all of last year's disqualifications. I'm sure some of them broke the publication rule, but were any of them disqualified for submitting a different photo to another contest?
     
  20. Shadow

    Shadow Moderator Staff Member

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    It is not assumption. I know few of the judges and I asked them. Let see whether IIAC will go public about it or not.
     

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