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Discussion in 'Beginner's Corner' started by HenrySheehan, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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  2. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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    ShadowMac and Zeus like this.
  3. Zeus

    Zeus Active Aquascaper

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    Well new thread at UKAPS
    Nemolight - Day light, Moon light. Two modes of light intensity it looks a very nice LED but did a quick google at dinnertime about the SMD5730 LED Chips they used, didnt find a data sheet but found

    quote
    A 5630 (5730) LED diode will illuminate brightness equivalent to approximately 50 Lumen. The same goes for each chip's power consumption, a 3528 LED will consume approximately 0.06 Watt, while a 5050 LED will consume approximately 0.18 Watt of power and a 5630 (5730) consumes about 0.5 Watt.14 Apr 2013
    Unquote

    first the date was April 2013 so old technology LED wise.

    So lets assume the SMD5730 LED Chips give 50lumen per chip ( the data sheet for the chip is needed really) so

    Aqua Fresh 18W has 37 chips so 1850 Lumen
    Aqua Fresh 72W has 144 chips so 7200 lumen

    But no where in the advert does it give the output Why?

    Well if you do the maths for the required lumens you might find out the units output isnt enough for your setup. Good enough for Low tech yes but the rest will need multiple units
    ------------------------------------

    Going back to the LED unit you was looking at how many was you planning on getting, Whats your target Lumen range for your tank and the plants you will be using. Do the maths for what you need and get the product that that fit the requirements. I didnt do the maths for the kessils I got and needed more lights, i had planned for that too. If you cant find the data you want on a product there is normally a good reason IMO.

    Plus the 120.6 LED from the pic looks basically like two spot lights judging from the pic as all the LED chips are clustered together in two areas, not ideal for iwagumi as unform blanket light would be better. The canopy is just a big heatsink, No fans is great but also means not very powerful too, the top of canopy doesn't even have fins to help cooling


     
  4. Zeus

    Zeus Active Aquascaper

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    Skipped straight to the last talk by Nick Klase on LEDs very good but bit dated LED wise OFC. Like he said we need the PAR readings at various depths but very hard to find the figures of manufacturers units. Thats one off the reasons I'm thinking of adding a decent quantum PAR sensor to my PLC. Also good what he said about what grows the coral well but looks like someones pissed in the tank. Thats why I like the idea of being able to control the output of the LED chips intensity as much as possible esp different chips of different wavelengths. The COB units a temporary fitted to my tank got the plants pearling like mad, looked like piss in tank grew fast and the algea too OFC.
     
  5. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, so I started reading through the thread to catch up and soon realized I don't have that time to burn! lol SO someone catch me up. Where are "we" at with this build?

    Couple things to mention on hardscape selection and something I think many new folks miss...the size of the pieces is most important. If you have the right sized pieces positioning and utilizing shadows can create a dynamic aquascape...even if the character of the pieces aren't the best. Basically a top scaper with some lava rock could out do a mediocre scaper with manten stone given all other things are equal.

    In terms of Iwagumi's. Throw the rules out the window everyone comes at you with. Only 3 or 5 or 7 stones. hooey. Avoid lining them up like its a family photo. Consider depth front to back and utilize shadows well by tilting the rocks and considering what the light above is doing. Amano said he was not thinking of Japanese stone arrangements when he started doing Iwagumi (although hard to deny some influence) instead he was thinking about stones along the Amazon river. I'm certain they don't arrange themselves in odd numbers. Its about creating a minimalistic natural feeling, so stone position and size is most important. Consider the flow of the stones, do they look like water would be moving over them...do they work together towards a visual goal like drawing the eye to a location or creating tension. Things to think about. As a side note I cannot wait to start my true iwagumi soon. Still need to build that stand. I keep checking the garage and the wood hasn't cut and assembled itself yet.

    I saw Zeus already mentioned some of the pitfalls with doing an Iwagumi as a beginner...some of these can be mitigated. For example a dry start to get a thick carpet before flooding. Using floating plants like water sprite or wisteria in the beginning phases to increase plant density.

    Thick carpets need some decent lighting. Its tough to find stuff out there at a decent price in the LED realm that can do the job well enough. The Kessils Zeus is running work great for his goals...but later if he wants to throw in some high light demanding colorful stems they may leave him wanting. ;)
     
  6. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Ya cluster control 120.6 is another one that's bitten the dust. The company wouldn't give me any par details. They are on discount because they are trying to push the matrix which is the new product on their line and they say they don't have any par readings!!! #avoidone

    As you said Zeus the cluster is a bit like a spot lights effect. The Current USA satellite plus pro on the other hand has the Bank of LED's you're on about.

    How do I work out Zeus what lumens etc I need. As if it's not confusing enough, haha. Mind blowing stuff this lights lark!


    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
  7. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    substrate. ADA aquasoil is a great option and pound for pound its actually comparably priced as similar substrates from other companies. Forget the additives....mostly a joke. Consider some root tabs at the start just to boost the nutrient power and make it last longer. You'll want to add more every 6 months.
     
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  8. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    lumens will send you astray. You need PAR unfortunately. You can't necessarily convert from lumens to PAR since they are measuring different things. You can see if this calculator is helpful at all: https://rotalabutterfly.com/light-calculator.php

    I have no idea about its validity though.
     
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  9. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I've got bags of ada ready for road. Have pretty much everything ready to roll except for the lights.
    I've yet to see the light!!!!

    Cheers for that link. Problem then seems to be finding a company that not only gives you par say 18" straight under the light but gives you the par coverage out to the extremities. Very few of them seem to want to share that info with us. I wonder why that is.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Zeus

    Zeus Active Aquascaper

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    But its not about just Lumens as thats more Old skool, PAR reading are better. I am using Lumens as thats data is easier to find esp for the LEDs I have been looking at, penitration is important too and like it said in the link you gave in the last clip it did day blue light penetrates the water best but red is a little poor at penetration. So there are lots of factors to consider, I'm still learning which is why I like to follow and try and help others as it helps me learn more to.

    So I use lumens ATM as the data is relatively easy to find and easy to find the ranged needed to grow certain plants. You have to start somewhere. T5 tubes are easy as theres lots of data on them and they have been used for years for aquascaping, probably still the best for viewing tank too. So might be a good choice in some ways.

    Edit posted the above before seeing Shawns reply
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  11. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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    You know what I think so too Zeus. If you know a good T5 light that'll dim I'd walk to their shop an buy em right now #wornout

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
  12. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Sorry ShadowMac, only seen your long post there now. Extended out my tank to 140cm by adding a beach/cliff aspect to the LH side of my tank. This means I will only be planting circa 120cm. I felt because my big stone is so much bigger than the next that it stood out way to much which is why I decided on the scape in the pic below compared to the next pic.

    Looking to just plant tall vals at the back and a carpeted plant, s.p. mini then in the middle and foreground.

    I've two JBL 1501's & Blau Co2. So I kind of have everything except for the lights. Been hearing bad thing about the kessils reliability so going to avoided them as they'd cost approx 1000 euro along with controller. [​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
  13. Zeus

    Zeus Active Aquascaper

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    I will look and see what I would choose for a T5 setup at weekend, should have some time, Shawn has a good T5 setup.

    When was you hoping to be starting your plants DSM or straight to flood? It's not like you should be in a rush to get your lights as they would just be sat there with the warranty running out. You are in great position in a way as you are dealing with the fine detail and not able to start.
    Might even have my Apogee quantum PAR sensor before you need to finalise your light choice, then I would have some PAR readings for what the kessil 160 actually do at depth, after all our tanks very similar dimensions after all.

    Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface
     
  14. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I know Zeus it's brilliant. I'm so excited to get started but I can't, for another 5-6 months maybe. So it's like you said, deep breaths and take your time Henry

    I see other ppl on the forums and they are rushing into things. One guy I see there planted DHG and it all died off b4 he had a chance to hook up his Co2. Madness.

    Looking up the Current USA satellite plus pro there. My tank is going to be 50cm in height. Keith recommends 10cm of substrate. So at the very front of my tank will be 40cm/16". Going by the chart attached that'll give me well over 70 par. My scape then rises, so at the back it'll be 30cm/12" from the light giving me a par reading at the back of my tank at 103.

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
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  15. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Henry

    The reason I recommend that depth is to allow any rooting plants a greater depth or the roots to travel looking for nourishment plus have a stronger grip and far less chance of not gripping the substrate firmly.

    Keith:cat::cat:
     
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  16. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Any carpeting plants like hair grass will only need about 4 cm of depth. They have shallow root systems. Things like crypts or swords will require more. You will want to build up the substrate anyways to the middle for your two sided scape.
     
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  17. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    Take a look at my post here regarding an Iwagumi critique. Much of it applies to your mock up as well. Check out the videos.

    http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/nigels-iwagumi-128l.11041/page-4#post-117783

    There is some challenge in making a scape viewable from multiple sides, but it can be done. I would just think about the midline as the background area for both of these tanks. Unless you are no longer doing a two side viewable scape..then it isn't a problem.
     
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  18. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Henry

    You can alter the substrate heights in the mock tank or start on your main tank immediately.

    Have you drawn up a final list of plants and their locations yet?

    The most important point with your tank will be are you happy with what you have achieved and used it as a big learning curve.

    Keith:cat::cat:
     
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  19. HenrySheehan

    HenrySheehan Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I'm not doing the two sided now as way too much sunlight on one side.

    Going to keep it simple Keith, tall thin wavy plant in background. Any specific ones ye would recommend would be appreciated.
    Eleocharis sp. 'mini' or Eleocharis parvula then for my carpeted plant. Think mini is aimed more towards the nano tanks but thinking it may take less maintenance.
    Would also like to plant mc as well to create maybe a sense of depth. Any ideas on this? Would it work and if so, how and where?
    Great ideas on shadowing, funny how I almost try and turn the stones back away so the light shines on them instead of shadowing them.
    Oh and one other thing, would ye advise me to maybe plant some more plants to initially help fight against algae?

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
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  20. keithgh

    keithgh Moderator Staff Member

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    Henry
    My advice would be set it up in your tank first take a few photos. Next step would be do a rough sketch of where and what plants you are going to plant and post that.
    You can have a tank full of plants yet still have algae.
    Here are some readings for you re causes of algae.
    http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?articleid=714
    https://www.thespruce.com/aquarium-algae-1379979

    Re shadows in Aquascapes you will have shadows every where mainly because of the over head lighting and its positioning. Then there is the natural room light plus the night lighting you have. I always preferred my lighting towards the front in my tanks yet in the Terrascapes the lighting looks better at the rear of the tank. When taking photos I would place the light in various positions to get the effect I required. Then there is the planting and any DWs.

    Keith:cat::cat:
     

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