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Dutch something or the other

Discussion in 'Aquascaping Showcase' started by plantbrain, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Made a few changes.

    [​IMG]

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    You can see a lot of recovery from post CO2 issue.
    Cuphea has decided to grow again, the Buce's have adapted to the high light region with minimal issues. The Bacopa in the rear should color up a nice purple........new mini Milfoil is a nice little plant.

    Downoi has gotten very thick on the far left.

    UG was replanted and should start filling in somewhat in the next 2-3 weeks.
    The A. cardinalis is a true red variety and has bounced back with new nice growth. Red R. macrandra makes a return. S belem and manuas in the rear, L. vertillicilata twisty tornado has taken over the rear, will need to thin this out and perhaps add another plant species etc.

    Hydrothrix also makes a return.

    Post trim stunting reduced on the R sunset, likely due to better CO2 and scissors.

    Not quite sure what to do with the Cuphea really, small nice plant, but I'm having trouble seeing long term placement/scaping. Likely will replace with the Pennywort.

    I will likely switch the Bacopa with the Milfoil.
    See if I like it.

    I would like to have the Erio type 3 replace the Hydrothrix, I'm sort of done with Hydrothrix, nice weedy plant, but I like the slower nice growth of the Erio.
    Since things are running better now, I likely can return it from the 180, but I........like it.......there as well:p

    Ammannia (3 types) are doing well in the 180, so I might add the "Manini" type narrow slower growing type in the back perhaps, it does very well in my 180 Gal tank.
     

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  2. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Okay, the rummies were eating the UG and ripping off all new leaves and uprooting the E hydropiper.

    The UG is already regrowing after 3-4 days after the rums were removed.

    I did not expect such rapid recovery.

    This VERY strongly suggest that the rummy's did the deed, the CO2, filter, light, etc, all remain unchanged and I've not seen this nice type of growth since prior to having the rummies, till now.

    A classic planted tank fish, killer of the nice foreground plants.

    I'd blamed the CO2 prior and thought that was still the issue, but other wimpy plants were doing well, so...........
     
  3. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    [​IMG]

    Recovery on the UG which has looked bad for well....since I added the rummies..........

    [​IMG]

    I have a fair amount of work and grow out before the tank is back to where I feel it's looking decent.
     
  4. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I never...
    I'd heard that shrimp love eating UG but never would have thought rummies would have reaped such destruction!
     
  5. galettojm

    galettojm New Member

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    Hi,

    I had CRS, amano shrimps and taiwan red fires and I have never seen them eating UG http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/evolution-planted-tank-54-g-35x20x18.6162/page-2. Which type of shrimps like eating UG? I would be good to know just in case.

    I also not even imagined that rummies could eat UG.

    Thanks,

    Juan
     
  6. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

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    Amano's are meant to be the worst for eating UG. I've never had any luck with UG though, I think my water is just too hard.
     
  7. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I had the and still have the Amano's in this tank, they never bothered UG.

    see past pics prior to Rummies:

    E hydropiper:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    6 weeks later:

    [​IMG]

    Prior spot:
    [​IMG]

    Shrimp have remained unchanged.

    Rummies beat the snot out of the hydropiper and the UG.
     
  8. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    These are pics 3 days after treatment with API algae fix.
    You can see zero damage to all plant species and fish are fine.

    This tank had a touch of BBA flair up due to the purposed reduction in CO2(pH went up 0.3).
    This induced a nice healthy aggressive green hair algae bloom mostly, the UG was covered as where most stem plants and the R wallichii.

    There is no hair algae left.

    I was hoping to test the Algae fix to kill the low grade fire shrimp.
    This failed, I found dozens left.

    The algae test however, was a success.

    Seems the algaefix will kill many/most of the shrimps, but not 100%.
    In test tanks without as many plants and soil etc, this is not the case.
    Soil likely binds and bacteria laden tanks can perhaps break the pesticide AI much more than the bare tanks.

    I'm quite pleased at the selectivity.

    As many cannot remove all their shrimp, this at least gives then some chance and perhaps you can remove them here and there during treatment, and there's no adverse impact on mosses or any vascular plants I can discern.

    So far this product was effective killing the most troublesome hair algae species(Rhizo, Spirogyra, Vaucheria, Cladophora).
    I have not tested it on Algae balls. Those are easy to remove during treatment.

    I do not think it kills diatoms, BBA, BGA at all.
    Otto's and plecos can address most all diatom issues I've ever seen.

    BBA:CO2/Excel Spot treatments with Excel/H2O2, SAE's etc.
    BGA:Blackouts, KNO3, EM and KNO3 post dosing.

    GDA: I need to hear back from more folks on this. Result seem encouraging. I had a strong aggressive bloom and it took care of it with one treatment.
    Other long time victims are trying it.





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    Note the UG, the growth and the difference since the Rummies have been removed is astounding.

    [​IMG]

    Compare when I induced the algae:

    [​IMG]

    Then the week prior to that:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

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    Great post, Tom.
    Presumably the algaecide clears the tank of algae more quickly than the usual methods?
     
  10. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Yes, VERY effective and does no harm to even the wimpy plants, they are totally unaffected, well, other than looking better and being algae free..........
    Hair algae and the green algae in general tend to be the more troublesome because they are so similar to higher plants.
    The only trade off is the product will kill shrimp effectively.
    But not 100%.

    At least 20-30 made it through.

    It took a lot of labor and trimming to get rid of it last time the old way.
     
  11. Garuf

    Garuf Moderator Staff Member

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    That's good to here, is it the active ingredient that's the cause of the shrimp deaths or is it some other agent within there? Is uptake by the substrate not a possible issue?
    Again a presumption but wouldn't the increase in ammonia from all the dead critters then play into the hands of algae all over again?

    It's a great to know there are some easier fixes for hair algae as it took me months to shake it last time, albeit with some trade offs.
     
  12. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    It took me a month or two of aggressive work to get rid it in the past, possible but a lot of work. I knew the root issue prior in this case and the a couple of other cases.

    From the EPA:

    1. Environmental Fate and Transport
    The available data indicate that Busan 77, is a water-soluble, cationic ionene polymer (WSCP) with an average molecular weight of 3,386 g/mol. Based on its miscibility in water and high molecular weight, volatility from water is highly unlikely. It is also stable to both abiotic degradation (hydrolysis and photolysis) and to metabolism in soil and sediment water systems. In the presence of soil or sediment, tight sorption of nearly all residues was observed almost immediately. Busan 77 was almost exclusively (96 %) found in the top two inches of 12 inch columns leached with water. Less than 1 % was found in the leachate collected at the bottom of the columns. These conclusions on mobility are consistent with the fact that Busan 77 is positively charged and soil/sediment is negatively charged. As a result, Busan 77 is not expected to contaminate surface and ground waters.

    http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/busan77-red.pdf

    Basically the product will bind and slowly degrade. Once bound, it is not a toxicity issue, it's bound. So soil ADA, Clay etc............organic matter...........binds with it rather well.

    Then degradation can occur.

    There is a wide range of fish sensitivity. Same for things like NO3.
    I see folks citing Trout for their less 5ppm NO3 rants...........while the lowly Guppy is near 280 ppm and that is a N-NO3........
    For this pesticide, it can be 0.05 ppm perhaps up to 30,000 ppm depending on WHICH fish and which statistic chosen.

    So it matters what is cherry picked to defend one's position rather than looking at the range of toxicity and the aquarium effects.
    Fear mongering runs rampant. And that's no better than the bad guys lying to you.

    I've read a few such post on the web on fish forums. Few that were rational.

    Glutaraldehyde is used and folks are okay with that, peroxide and other things..........
     
  13. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    UG Recovery 2nd week after Rummy nose tetras were removed: compare to the above older pics.

    [​IMG]


    Quite a large difference in growth and health. Fish can really destroy plants in some cases but leave others alone.
    I thought it was all CO2 or something.

    But not when the Elatine was an issue also.
     
  14. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I will return the Rotala sunset and the E hydropiper shortly.
    Mulling the Buce's also.
     
  15. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Note the UG today and compare about 3.5 weeks ago, there is simply no denying the Rummy nose attacking this plant.

    [​IMG]

    I am still going to add the Rotala sunset back. I placed it in the 180 Gal and then removed it and placed it back here. It's growing very well so I'll fill that row out in the next 3-4 weeks or so.

    [​IMG]

    Also returned at the Buce's.
    I have some Erios, extra Buce's, and Red tennellus I'm pondering what to do with in the Right corn of the tank:

    [​IMG]


    I may work some wood, moss attached to wood, Mini Pellia attached to wood etc to create a border.......or just add one of those species as a group. I'm leaning towards the Buce's.
    Another weed might be Riccia on a piece of wood etc.

    I'll remove the Blyxa Kimerly.
    They will get too large for this tank's display.

    [​IMG]


    Downoi is a really nice plant for this side, does extremely well in this tank.
    L. senegalensis has done very well from the cuttings I got awhile ago. Not the best contrast plant in this tank however. Need to think and search for some better contrast plants with that one.
    L. pilsoa(old name) is in a nice spot, I'll keep that there from now on. There's some smaller grow out Ludwigia pilosa on the far Right also, those will eventually be removed.
    I may need to bring back Myriophyllum tuberculatum, nice copper color and very fine pinnate leaves.
     
  16. Getingen

    Getingen New Member

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    This tank is incredible beautiful! What fertilizer do you use?
     
  17. MikolajW

    MikolajW Aspiring Aquascaper

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    You've got perfect condition of plants. Your tanks has incredible colours. It's fantastic!
     
  18. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Same ferts I've used 20 years ago.

    CO2
    CMS+b
    KNO3
    KH2PO4
    And GH booster
     
  19. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Some plant growth/health is not optimal, but the growth is heading that way. It takes time when I redo some groups for the new plants to fill in or recover from the transition.
    As I try and change things to see what I like, it takes time, so some days the tank will look very well, other days, not so well depending on what stage it is at.

    The goal is not one time point for the goal, rather, a series of time points as each combination grows in.
     
  20. plantbrain

    plantbrain Aspiring Aquascaper

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    I am going to move the UG to the far left and add Elatine hydropiper in the UG space.
    I have some moss and perhaps another red plant for the far Right hand corner.


    [​IMG]

    Close up of the UG recovery post Rummy nose removal:
    [​IMG]

    Top Right rear corner:
    [​IMG]

    The Ludwigia "pilosa"(old incorrect name) does very well for me, but only recently started to grow straighter.
    I removed the H "pinnifata". Also added a Bolbitus short leaf form, will see if it stays small in the 5-6" range.
    [​IMG]
     

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