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Cherry Shrimp Poisoning HELP?

Discussion in 'Shrimp and Invertz' started by speedingorange, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    Just added some new plants to the tank hoping to provide some new hiding places for the Red CHerry Shrimp. and it seems I may have poisoned them?

    I washed all the plants before placing them in the tank.

    But they are all twitching / floating about / and laying upside down ( this is within 30 mins of adding the plants)

    I have done a near 80% water change but have seen no improvement?

    Video:
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgOcosEGqAs]YouTube - Shrimp poisoning?[/ame]

    Could it be Copper poisoning? what should i do next? is it too late?
     

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  2. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    wheres the water movement? and turn the CO2 off.

    Looks more like they are drunk too me and that could be the CO2

    AC
     
  3. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    What do you mean? sorry
     
  4. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    In the video the water surface is not moving. Also I can see loadsa bubbles in there.

    When CO2 is at very high levels the livestock act like they are drunk.


    AC
     
  5. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    tue filter on the tank is overhead and does not disturb the surface very much. The CO2 was on whilst i was planting the plants into the tank. But as soon as i noticed they were "acting up" i turned it off. And did LARGE water changes 60 litres in totol immidiately. Which would reset the CO2 shurely? my drop chekcer suggests that it was at less than " normal " for plants. as it was slightly blue in colour. Another member has suggested maybe it is insecticides? The fish all seem fine mind.
     
  6. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Check to see if you can see any of these. they will be much much smaller than the shrimp:

    [​IMG]

    If you have an airstone or spare small internal filter/powerhead get it in there to move the surface. You want some surface movement in the tank. If that filter isn't doing it then there's something wrong either too much/little water in the tank or the filter is a very poor design/not working properly.

    AC
     
  7. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    defo none of them in the tank as i look constantly for them as i used to get them in a tank i had about 10 years ago.

    The shrimp are now out of the tank and in a bucket with an airstone. all are on their side stone still. So i can only assume they have died. which im fairly upset / annoyed about. They were 100% fine before the plants were added.

    the filter is a wet and dry filter with a spray bar? which i thought would provide enough aeration etc and the surface is moving just not clear in that video. Once the water has passed through the filter it runs out into the water in the tank with about a 2 - 3mm fall. through about 12 holes.
     
  8. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    I thought you washed the plants? It shouldn't be insecticides if you had. If they copper treated for snails then your wash and water change should have removed it.

    Water change was hot and cold? Try taking another 20% out and replacing with just cold and turn the heater off. cold water holds O better.

    In winter in very cold countries they often ask about problems they have in the winter. Often is from using more hot tap water because of the cold tap temperature.

    I do just straight 50% cold water changes. temp goes from 25 - 21 in the space of 20 minutes. No shrimp probs nor fish probs apart from too many babies.

    AC
     
  9. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    How many shrimp are in there?

    Try just leting the water go down to ambient. shrimp are much better in the lower 20s

    AC
     
  10. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    Four Shrimp. I only had four as they all had eggs ( bar the male) I would have had 40 by the end of the month doh.

    All plants were washed under tap water and rinsed etc. Reason i thought it may be insecticides is because i dont know what else it could be and the reaction was so sudden after adding the plants.

    Will try the 20% water change with just cold water.

    It is funny how they have been fine up until tonight then suddenly within 20 mins of new plants they are all dead.
     
  11. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    What is the substrate? Obviously that was disturbed as you planted

    AC
     
  12. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    Yeah it was,

    It is Aquaone fine black gravel / sand.

    Aquarium Fish tank black silica sand grit gravel

    It was washed before putting in the tank.

    Could a large amount of ammonia from somewhere have been released?! the tank is only 2 weeks old.
     
  13. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    One of them in the bucket seems to be making a slight bit of a recovery. It is walking backwards. which is an improvement over laying on its side playing dead. ?
     
  14. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    No idea but 2 weeks is a little early for stocking. SAying that though the fishload isn't too high and the substrate is inert so the plants should 'silent cycle' the tank.

    I am a little stumped. Are the shrimp turning 'frosted' pink or still transparent?

    AC
     
  15. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    one has gone a pinkish tone (the male) the rest were just spasming.


    I have a copper test kit coming that I have just ordered.

    The one female seems to be coming round a little as i type, the male has also started twitching which he was not doing before so i can only asume he may be coming around too.
    So im going them in the bucket till tomorrow morning see if they pull right round. I don't have a filter though? i assume they will be ok?

    The tank was set up with used filter medium from a tank that was a month old. and some used gravel. (was an upgrade as opposed to a fresh start)

    The four shrimp and corys that are now in the 75 litre tank were happy with fine water stats in the old small 16 litre tank. and were all very happy till tonight / plants/
     
  16. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    By all means test for copper but don't take the reading as gospel. Indicator at best.

    Personally I can't see it if you washed them. More likely the actual disturbance brought something out of the substrate that sent them 'giddy'.

    However, I am perhaps not the best to advise on things like this. I tend to just do whatever I want and seem to come up smelling of roses when it comes to the aquariums!!!

    Lots of stuff I don't really know about because its never been a problem for me.

    Hope they get better. They will be alright with the airstone. They will be in there not much longer than when I ship mine in small poly bags with no aeration :)

    If they have to remain in there then dump some 'trusted' plant trimmings in there and change 25% water every day.

    AC
     
  17. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    Right, Some good news:

    All female shrimp are "back to normal" in the bucket.

    the male is still dizzy but is trying to walk. all good.

    Next step?

    I can only see two possible causes.

    Substrate disturbance unleashing a beast
    and something not being washed off the plants 100% with the excitement of getting them in the tank.

    SO....

    Should i leave it till tonight do another 80% water change? then try re introducing them to the tank?

    There will be a copper test kit here Friday... should i wait till i have this just to be a bit surer?

    Im wondering if last night by the time the new water went in they were all in a state of shock? so the contaminates being removed would have not had an effect by that point anyhow? it has taken them six hours to come round in new water.

    One thing is for sure... they are tough critters. The females are still holding their eggs!

    is carbonate hardness an indication of how much c02 is in the water on a test kit? it read 6dh last night?
     
  18. Crispino Ramos

    Crispino Ramos New Member

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    Plant names? Did you trim the plants in the tank? Some plants leach substances that may cause irritation on the shrimp's nervous or respiratory system. For example, Anubias should not be trimmed whilst in the tank - the Anubias sap is poisonous.
     
  19. speedingorange

    speedingorange New Member

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    was just java fern and cabomba that was trimmed.

    As i left for work this morning themale shrimp was almost 100% back to normal. I cant belive how they have pulled round.
     
  20. Supercoley1

    Supercoley1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure on that anubias info. I did read ages ago someone talking about that but I have a huge colony of cherries in my 125. somewhere between a few hundred and a thousand but of course can't count them :)

    I have loads of Anubias, Ferns, etc and am always cutting the rhixome if it pokes out too much. Never seen a problem though.

    On the KH question CO2 will not affect KH. Only Ph. That is why the stories of Ph crash are 'myth'. The Ph is unrelated to KH although it is influenced by KH. however if you have X Ph and X KH after CO2 the Ph will drop to W whilst the KH remain at X.

    The shrimp being OK now means that it is something to do with the tank, now to isolate the problem. There are a huge amount of posiibilities so be careful not to make a false assumption. Adding the plants caused theproblem but it may well be nothing to do with the plants or anything they brought in. Something during the process may be the culprit, namely something being disturbed etc.

    And yes Cherries are very hardy. I move them from tank to tank (non CO2 to CO2 + different temps and vice versa) without acclimitising at all. Plus when I empty my filter each month I 'net the shrimps from the filter (100+ each time) and they go in whichever tank looks like it could do with some more. No acclimitising!!!

    Not suggesting you do that, just showing how hardy they are. I would never do that with fish or fry :)

    AC
     

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