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Amano Deaths :(

Discussion in 'Shrimp and Invertz' started by Lafataa, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    55g planted.
    2x 54W T5s.
    ~3BPS (30ppm CO2).
    Dose Dry Ferts.

    So one of my Amanos died today and not sure why. He was one of my smaller ones (about 1-1.5 inches) so perhaps he was bullied. I had 7 total before he died.

    I introduced 3x Dwarf Gouramis and 8x Black Neon Tetras (total 12 tetras) two days ago and they're all doing great. However, I noticed that when I put them in the tank, the Amanos started to hide. Tonight I came home and found the poor guy dead on the front of my tank :(.

    Here's the thing: I had TERRIBLE green water so I got a UV Sterilizer. It worked great! It got rid of the green water in about 48 hours. However, it turned cloudy afterwards, almost as if it was going through another cycle. After my usual 50% water change at the end of the week, the Ammonia reading was .5 which makes me wonder what it was at before that... I did another 25% later on and it got back down to safe levels.

    I got back from work today after finding that Amano dead and did another reading and found Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5 and Ammonia .5 again. I did an emergency 25% change and will do another reading after. However, after finding that one dead guy I found another floating around. The poor guy was still alive and his little flippers were kicking. I moved him to my QT but it doesn't look good for him.

    My 3 Dwarf Gouramis and 12 Black Neon Tetras are doing perfectly fine (Gouramis weren't too happy about my flashlight looking around for any more dead Amanos).

    So here's my question: Is that normal for getting rid of GW for Ammonia to spike like that (Tank is crystal clear now) and are Amanos really THAT sensitive to ammonia spike even if it's .5ppm?

    It seems that Amanos are the only thing that I have difficulty keeping alive. I don't want to just keep restocking my supply; I want to figure out what's wrong.
     

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  2. Flo

    Flo Aspiring Aquascaper

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    for how long is the tank running now? do have enough O2 in the water? if you have, use an airstone for a day. shrimps love much O2 in the water. what kind of soil are you using? ADA Amazonia?
     
  3. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    Been running since the first week of July. I use an airstone when the lights are off only. I am using Eco Complete Black.
     
  4. Flo

    Flo Aspiring Aquascaper

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    okay that should be all fine. i think the problem is your dwarf gouramis. they eat shrimp and even big amano shrimp. if you can, put the gouramis in an other tank and look if the shrimp still hide.
     
  5. StanChung

    StanChung Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Overdose of dry ferts could be a cause. IME shrimps don't like a lot of K2SO4.
    I'd like to blame ammonia but it usually is harmless in acidic water.
    Overdose CO2 would usually affect the fish first.
    My Yamato's would try to climb out if the water wasn't right.

    My guess is bullying/preying by fish or combination of factors above.
     
  6. thohell

    thohell New Member

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    OMG, you kind of scared me! I thought you meant MR. Amano died... I seriously thought that. Anyways, sorry about your loss.

    From my personal experience, I went through a huge shrimp loss when I started dosing more dry fert and this is the same thing many of my club members experienced too. We were so focused on growing plants that we over dosed on ferts and killed hundreds of shrimps.
     
  7. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    Well since two of you brought it up, here's my dosing routine:

    Monday, Wednesday, Friday
    1/2 Teaspoon KNO3
    1/8 Teaspoon K2SO4
    1/8 Teaspoon KH2PO4

    Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday
    1/8 Teaspoon CSM+B

    Sunday is a 50% water change.

    I heard that this was the correct amount for a 55 gallon.

    Is it best for me to move my remaining Amanos out of the 55g and into my 10g QT tank?
     
  8. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    IMO, one death can happen for a number of reasons. It is nothing to get too worried about. Moving them to a quarantine would cause more stress.

    Fish predation could be an issue. Many fish will pick on shrimp if given the chance.

    I know of some people who would vehemently contest that ferts are to blame for shrimp deaths, particularly nitrates.

    How heavily is the tank planted? An ammonia spike could be possible with a low plant load when a large number of algae cells are destroyed with the UV sterilizer. Those cells would be broken down and decay causing an increase in ammonia. Most times ammonia is quickly converted in established well planted tanks and is not an issue.
     
  9. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    I would consider it a moderately planted tank. I'm waiting for my Dwarf Hairgrass to fill in but I have considerable amounts of plants considering it's a somewhat new tank. I asked a quite rude guy at Petco what the issue could be and he said that the tank wasn't cycled properly or there wouldn't be ammonia. He then claimed that killing off the GW would not cause an ammonia spike.

    I'm going to pick up some Seachem Prime now to use an my new dechlor and to treat the ammonia levels (Just tested them 12 hours after orig post and after another 25% WC and they are ~.25ppm).

    Did I add too many fish at once? 3 Dwarf Gouramis and 8 Black Neon Tetras to a tank that had 4 Black Neon Tetras and 7 Amanos?
     
  10. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    ammonia is generally quickly consumed in an established tank. However, if there is more decay than the bioload can convert you would get ammonia. I would stick with the water changes and continue without adding anyone else until you see things improve and remain stable.

    3-4 weeks is a commonly used time period to allow cycling to occur. In a 55 gallon tank I don't think adding the number of fish you did would stress the biofiltration.
     
  11. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    Would the algae wafers that I was feeding them be the cause? They are the Wardley wafers which I found out contain Copper Sulfate.

    These deaths also seem to coincide with starting EI dosing. Does CSM+B contain any dangerous amounts of Copper?
     
  12. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Moderator Staff Member

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    I dose CSM+B according to EI and have not had shrimp deaths i would contribute to copper; I also think the amounts in the food would be so small it wouldn't harm the shrimp.

    i do not know what amounts become toxic to shrimp, but do not think that you reached toxic levels from those sources mentioned. It could just be a single death for an unknown reason. If all the shrimp died off quickly, then you could consider some type of poisoning.
     
  13. ghostsword

    ghostsword Aspiring Aquascaper Staff Member

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    All my shrimp died in a week, I think that it was the water change. :( I use tap water.

    I've been dosing EI for a long time now.


    .
     
  14. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    Well I am down to 4. I lost one the other day. I'm wondering if it's because I have very soft water. I'm going to call my water treatment plant tomorrow to find exactly what's in it, but do you think it could be lack of calcium? I sometimes see their shed skins hanging around (they are soft to the touch) but I don't see them too often. I noticed that before they die they turn a light color a day or so before almost as if they are ready to molt (this is just a guess). Could it be lack of calcium?
     
  15. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    I dose EI and do a WC on Wed for 25% and one Sunday for 25% as not to shock them with too much.
     
  16. Flo

    Flo Aspiring Aquascaper

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    are only the molting shrimps dieing? i still think the gouramis could be the reason. I read that they particulary attack shrimps if they are molting. a calcium lack could be playing a role as well, cause the shrimps dont have any defense against bites. what kind of shrimpfood are you feeding?
     
  17. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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    Well I'm not sure if the shrimps that are dying are the ones that are molting. I'm just saying that it seems to coincide with the deaths. Right now since there's only four of them they're eating the little bit of green algae on the plants as well as a quarter of a Hikari Algae wafer every other day. I tried to put in some veggies for them and my Otos but they don't seem to eat them. Should I be supplementing them with more?
     
  18. Flo

    Flo Aspiring Aquascaper

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    Is calcium a ingredient of the wafers?
     
  19. Lafataa

    Lafataa New Member

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  20. Flo

    Flo Aspiring Aquascaper

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    do you have soft water? 3bps co2 is a lot. maybe ph to low? in softwater shrimps need more calcium.
     

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