Giving Good Critiques or False Feedback?

[John N.]

There are times where you can find a thread posted with a mediocre aquascape, and then you'll find several members comments stating "Great tank!" and nothing else. Even worse you will sometime see the same comments for an aquascape with unhealthy plants, no sense of order or a scape, and really needs work.

Now I'm all for positive encouragement, but when compared to a Great Tank verse a Mediocre verse a tank that needs work, there's going to be an obvious visual difference between what the definition of those criteria would be.

So in my opinion, saying nothing but "great tank" to someone with a good but not great tank is providing false feedback. This false feedback can harm that aquascaper into believing his work is great, and therefore he may fail to reach a higher level of aquascaping. If the goal is to provide encouragement, then "great tank" is only part of a comment to leave. I think comments should be expanded in detailed feedback, advice and tips to make that person's aquascape into something truly great.

How do you tell a person his tank isn't really all that great without outwardly saying so, and killing his aspirations and comfort to share with the community? For those aquascapers out there (accomplished or not), do you welcome negative critiques more so then positive ones? Can anyone provide a critique?

-John N.

[trenac]

In order to give negative feedback, you also have to give postive feedback. You need to find something about the scape that you like, no matter how small it may be. Then you have to start off with the positive, then go into the negative. You just can't slam someone's scape, no matter how it looks. Unless you want to lose them forever.

I think new comers are more prone to just say "great tank", without any explanation. Maybe they do think that it is. Maybe they just don't know how to give a critque, since they are new to the hobby. So I don't think that everyone is able to give informitive postive feedback.

I personally would rather hear postive feedback over negative. However I feel you need both to grow & mature as a aquascaper.

[BPASCreighton]

Sometimes brutal honesty works the best. In my opinion you shouldn't have to spare people's feelings. Many try to spare feelings by just stating the positive, but EVERY scape can be IMPROVED. Also, not everyone is going to love your scape and you should know that, especially if you are posting it on a national forum. I'm not saying to be overly harsh, but if you see something that is obviously bad let them know especially if you have more experience that they do. It's practically your responsibility!
Personally, I think as long as you have a tank full of plants that are healthy and growing you already have a great aquascape, but the criticism really depends on what mood/feeling the person is trying to create with the tank. Once you get into the more "advanced" level of scaping it really comes down to personal preference, balance, colors, mood, ect.
I would personally prefer to have EVERYTHING that someone doesn't like pointed out to me. If you know what you're doing wrong you can fix it. Ultimately it is your tank and you make the final decision, but a little help never hurts!

[tinkerman]

I'll have to agree here I would rather hear the negitive feedback than "great Tank". I looked at other people posts before I posted pics of my tank, I thought my tank wasn't any where near the level some of these tanks I see on the forum. I took the feedback in and people were right about stuff they didn't like about my layout I like more now that I moved some stuff around. I can see if a newbie tring to cretic a persons tank that has entered contests saying "great tank" cause if some of us could get our tanks to look that good we would be soo happy.

[John N.]

Originally Posted by trenac

In order to give negative feedback, you also have to give postive feedback.

Completely agree here.

I think unaccomplished aquascapers (and I use that term loosely) should have their comments taken seriously even though they haven't acheive that success themselves. When you look at something, you just know that should look a certain way. I suppose I can compare it to eating at a Five Star restaurant; We're not excellent chefs, but we know what tastes good and can comment on what we did or did not like about the dish.

I think negative comments, or more politely stated as "constructive criticisms" should be encouraged from all viewers. As comment givers, it's important to give as much feedback as possible because you never know what part of the comment will strike inspiration.

-John N.

[slickwillislim]

I am a strong believer in constructive criticism. My only issue with it is the amount of time needed to properly evaluate the good and bad aspects of a tank, and form them into understandable sentences that get your point across can be exhausting.

I am willing to put in the time, because I appreciate when others do the same, but this presents a problem when people don't accept, or worst of all become offended by what I have to say. Its hard for me to comment on some ones tank I don't know because I don't want to waste my time on someone who might just think I am a jerk.

I have given my opinions in the past, and I will continue to share them, but because of this apprehension I do tend to hold back a lot.


I don't think the term False Feedback is accurate, at least for me I know my tank is not as good, or even at the same level as a lot tanks out there, and somebody telling me it looks great makes me feel better (vain I know ), but it really doesn't convince me its great. Its just nice to here.

I don't post my tank for the "great tank" comment. I post it for the few constructive comments scattered in between. But, that doesn't mean the "great tank" comments are doing any harm. IMO I mean who doesn't feel better when someone says their tank looks great. I am not saying go around posting "great tank" everywhere, but its better then nothing.


The hardest tank for me to comment on is one with no direction. I can't give a complete beginner good advice because of this. All I can tell them is find some aquascape you like, and find the elements you like about it and try and use them in your own tank. I know I wanted to do something different before I understood the basics. I could not get something that looked acceptable, I had to look around and see what worked and didn't work. I see the copying of plant groupings or hardscape arrangement as developing tools for future creativity, and a huge compliment to the person I emulate.

Too many times people put up tanks that seem to be slapped together that want advice. I don't see any effort put into any part of the planting or the plant health. I can't devote the time to telling each one how to do everything, if they can't devote a little time into having a neat healthy aquarium, with AQUATIC plants. (not the petsmart/petco plants they bought on a whim).

I guess what I am trying to say is Its hard to help someone learn how to aquascape when they don't know the basics of plant or aquarium keeping for that matter.

Man this turned into a long rambling rant, Sorry. I just can't will myself to delete it...

[defdac]

I'm a believer of positive feedback and acknoldging the effort the aquascaper have put into an aquascape, perhaps with a few happy pointers on subjective things that I personally think would enhance the scape. "I would have done this and that this way.. " instead of "This and that is bad because.. "

This will lead to a positive feeling for the aquascaper and newcomers will definitely not be scared away - and perhaps the ones that think they are so much better can join in and show their displays.

I want to get hold of the humble lurkers that never shows their scapes who thinks their scapes look like crap. I have a feeling we can learn a lot from them.

I don't think we are "hurting" noobs with "ugly" scapes when we do not give feedback. They will understand when there are lack of comments and the comments are mostly "great tank". They're not stupid. And even if they are, they are happy not seeing the difference between their tank and an Amano-setup. That's their current level, not much to do about it.

Personally I've always been my own worst critic and always aspired to make something that at least looks like something Amano have done. If not sooner it's often obvious when I see my own tank through a digital picture on the monitor, perhaps next to a picture with an Amano-scape.

(I started this hobby because of pictures of Amano-tanks on the internet, so that look is what i strive for to achieve in my tank at home, nothing more nothing less...)

[Brian]

the best way is to say the Truth,

making false feedbacks make that the tank owner feels comfort and do nothing, the best way is to say the trut and makes some constructive critique and help him.

[goalcreas]

I agree with most of what has been said and I for one encourage critique's on the tanks that I post and suggestions most of all.
What I do with them is all up to me and for me to decide if it is too much work to do what is suggested or sometimes it is exactly what I am trying to avoid, and in that case, it won't be done.
I DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE.

However, there are many people in this world with much thinner skin then you or I have. I think the approach is the thing to consider when critiquing a so/so scape.

I feel like I know a little about what I am doing, not a much as many and not as talented as most, but I have a good base to go on.
So when I see somebody's first tank, or a tank with no scape and just random plants going on, I have to ask myself, are they after a tank other then plants and fish, what are they trying to accomplish and will my comments or critiques help or discourage them. I can post "might I make a suggestion" if they have not asked for them and see if they get back to say yes.
Or I can PM them so it is not out in the open that I want to offer a critique.

I REALLY like the approach this forum has taken with the ASPIRING AQUASCAPERS section which says to me "start a build thread of your tank here so we can critique it and help you along the way" instead of just a single place for anybody to put pics of their tanks, it kind of spells it out.

I wonder if it shouldn't go one step further and make a place for you to post your tank build in a section that is specifically designed (and labeled) so you can get other members input, good or bad, and to help you along with the scape all the way thru.
Then have a 2nd forum that is just for Show, that way others can post what they got for all to see, but where they don't expect any comments that contain any form of a critique or suggestions for bettering it at all, maybe even a section that only they can post to, like a gallery of members tanks, no comments accepted, and if you want to talk to them about it, you can PM them and say, I really like what you got in the gallery, but I see something that will make a great improvement IMO, do you want to hear about it?

We have a strong community of hobbyists all over the internet.
I frequent APC and AAPE mostly, rarely go to the planted tank, but am a member as well as AGA, but I never really go to that forum and now I am choosing to make this my third most visited site with along the first two I mentioned. I am all for recruiting newbies to the hobby, both locally in AZ and internationally around the globe and I really hate to see some come to places, feel they got bashed and never return, so it is pretty important to not inadvertently push them away.
If they had a place to start to post photo's with out the worry of "feeling silly and dumb and untalented", it might ease the progression into the forum.

[John N.]

Originally Posted by slickwillislim

Too many times people put up tanks that seem to be slapped together that want advice. I don't see any effort put into any part of the planting or the plant health. I can't devote the time to telling each one how to do everything, if they can't devote a little time into having a neat healthy aquarium, with AQUATIC plants. (not the petsmart/petco plants they bought on a whim).

I guess what I am trying to say is Its hard to help someone learn how to aquascape when they don't know the basics of plant or aquarium keeping for that matter.

Man this turned into a long rambling rant, Sorry. I just can't will myself to delete it...

I'm glad you didn't delete it. This is a great thought here. As mentioned before by Defdac, some new aquascapers could care less about how their tank is perceived or how their aquascapes compares to the top masterpieces. They might not know what is considered "good" (term used loosely, and subjective), so their aquascapes is pretty good to them even if it doesn't have the typical shape or style that is seen in masterpieces. As time goes on, they may learn the different styles and capitulate to one these designs as they progress as an aquascaper.

-John N.

[Orlando]

Im not a great scaper, so I basicly think everybody's tank looks better then any of my tanks. I love to see people put there heart into something they want to share with everybody. Its hard for me to tell what they are trying to achieve in ones tank so I can never offer advice on what they want. Im rambling now, I must stop. Sorry

[John N.]

Originally Posted by goalcreas

There are many people in this world with much thinner skin then you or I have. I think the approach is the thing to consider when critiquing a so/so scape....

I am all for recruiting newbies to the hobby, both locally in AZ and internationally around the globe and I really hate to see some come to places, feel they got bashed and never return, so it is pretty important to not inadvertently push them away.
If they had a place to start to post photo's with out the worry of "feeling silly and dumb and untalented", it might ease the progression into the forum.

One thought to consider that I mentioned before, we as "criticizers" or "suggestion makers" should look at the intentions of the poster. Some peoples really want critique, and some are just showing what they've accomplished. For the ladder group, they may feel offended that critiques have been made to their proud work of art. But as you mentioned, folks shouldn't take all opinions to heart. Take some thoughts and leave others. Most "suggestion makers" are good intentioned, and really want to see an aquascape develop. Whether or not that development is in the direction of the poster is for that person to decide.

Great suggestions by the way regarding the forum. Everyone here is at different levels and places in their aquascaping potential. Hopefully ASW feels like a comfortable environment where we can all learned from each other. Like Orlando, I personally find each and every tank interesting and beautiful. In most cases, all the aquascapers posted here are better than mine. I'll still toss in my two cents because you never know what suggestion will strike a chord.

-John N.